ML17163A424

Transcript of Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens' Advisory Panel Meeting, May 25, 2017, Brattleboro, VT, Pages 1-148

ML17163A424
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Site:	Vermont Yankee File:NorthStar Vermont Yankee icon.png
Issue date:	05/25/2017
From:	Office of Nuclear Material Safety and Safeguards
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JDParrott NMSS/DUWP/RDB 415-6634 T-8E47
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NRC-3086
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Official Transcript of ProceedingsNUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONTitle:Vermont Nuclear DecommissioningCitizens' Advisory Panel MeetingDocket Number:(n/a)

Location:Brattleboro, Vermont Date:Thursday, May 25, 2017Work Order No.:NRC-3086Pages 1-148NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.Court Reporters and Transcribers1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.Washington, D.C. 20005(202) 234-4433 1UNITED STATES OF AMERICA1NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION2+ + + + + 3VERMONT NUCLEAR DECOMMISSIONING CITIZENS'4ADVISORY PANEL MEETING5+ + + + +6THURSDAY7MAY 25, 20178+ + + + +9BRATTLEBORO, VERMONT10The Public Meeting was convened at 10911Sunny Acres in Brattleboro, Vermont at 6:00 p.m. by12Kate O'Connor, Chair of the Vermont Nuclear13Decommissioning Citizens Advisory Panel, presiding14PRESENT: 15Chris Campany, Windham Regional Commission.16David Deen, Citizen Member17Mark MacDonald, Vermont Senate Representative18Steve Skibniowsky, Town of Vernon19David Andrews, International Brotherhood of Electrical20Workers21Jim Tonkovich, Vermont Senate Representative22Martin Langeveld, Citizen Member23Jim Matteau, Citizen Member24Derrik Jordan, Citizen Member25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 2Bill Irwin, Department of Health Radiological and1Toxicological Sciences.2Riley Allen, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont Department3of Public Service.4Mike McKenney, Entergy.5Jack Boyle, Entergy67 8

910 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 3P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S1(6:05 p.m.)2CHAIR O'CONNOR: Good evening. Good3evening, everybody. My name is Kate O'Connor, and I4am the chair of the Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning5Citizens Advisory Panel, which is the meeting you are6all at tonight. And I want to officially call to7order the May 25th, 2017, meeting of the Panel. 8What I'm going to do for some of you who9may -- this may be your first meeting, I want to10explain a little bit about what the Panel is and what11we do. We are a nineteen-member panel that was formed12by the Legislature back in 2014 when Entergy announced13that they would be closing Vermont Yankee. We have14been meeting since September 2014. And in that time,15I think we've had twenty-five or twenty-six meetings. 16So we've been meeting pretty much on a regular basis.17The Legislature gave us a series of18duties, but the one that is really most relevant for19tonight is that we are -- we are to serve as a conduit20for public information and education, and to encourage21community involvement in all matters related to the22decommissioning of Vermont Yankee. 23Before I go over the agenda, I want all of24our Panel members to introduce themselves. We have a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 4diverse group. I was appointed by Governor Shumlin as1a citizen member of the Panel.2So Chris, do you want to start that on3your end?4MR. CAMPANY: Chris Campany, Windham5Regional Commission.6MR. DEEN: David Deen, citizen appointee7by the Speaker of the House.8SENATOR MACDONALD: Mark MacDonald,9Representative Vermont Senate and on this Panel.10MR. SKIBNIOWSKY: Good evening; I'm Steve11Skibniowsky, representing the Town of Vernon and12nominated by the Vernon Board of Selectmen.13MR. ANDREWS: David Andrews, representing14the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers15and representing the past and present employees of16Vermont Yankee.17MR. TONKOVICH: Jim Tonkovich, I'm an18appointee from the Senate President Pro Temp.19MR. LANGEVELD: Martin Langeveld, a20citizen member appointed by Governor Shumlin.21MR. MATTEAU: Jim Matteau, also a citizen22member appointed by the President Pro Temp.23MR. JORDAN: Derrik Jordan, citizen member24appointed by Shap Smith.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 5DR. IRWIN: Bill Irwin, representing the1Agency of Human Services. I work for the Department2of Health Radiological and Toxicological Sciences.3MR. ALLEN: And I'm Riley Allen. I'm4Deputy Commissioner of the Vermont Department of5Public Service. I'm here sitting in for Commissioner6June Tierney, who is out of the country.7MR. MCKENNEY: Good evening. I'm Mike8McKenney. I'm representing Entergy.9MR. BOYLE: Good evening. I'm Jack Boyle,10also representing Entergy. I'm the Decommissioning11Director at Vermont Yankee.12CHAIR O'CONNOR: We're going to have you13guys -- you folks introduce yourselves in a minute. 14This is an official meeting of our Panel. 15And tonight, we have our special guests which are16representatives from Entergy and NorthStar and the17NRC. And they're going to be, as you know, on the18agenda for later. 19The representatives from the NRC are here20to take public comment on the license transfer, which21is the sale from Entergy to NorthStar, and NorthStar's22post-shutdown decommissioning activities report, which23is called the P.S.D.A.R., which for all of you who24don't know what that is, it's the decommissioning plan25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 6which includes the cost estimates for decommissioning1the plant.2The NRC is required to take public comment3on the license transfer, but they are not required to4hold a public meeting. But they have agreed to come5here tonight. The Panel invited them to come, as did6Vermont's congressional delegation. And I want to7thank their representatives of Senator Sanders,8Congressmen Welch, and Senator Leahy here tonight. We9have Haley Pero from Senator Sanders' office, Tom10Berry from Senator Leahy's office, and George Twigg11from Congressman Welch. And they can all wave.12So we really appreciate -- we appreciate13their help. And I also want to again thank the14Nuclear Regulatory Commission for accepting our15invitation to come here this evening. 16Just so everybody knows, when we get to17the comment period all of the converse -- comments are18going to be recorded by the Nuclear Regulatory19Commission and entered into the public record. If you20don't want to comment this evening, there is a21mechanism that you can do so through the NRC website. 22And the comment period is going to be through June2323rd. 24And what we're going to do is put the link25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 7on how to do it on the State of Vermont's website. 1And if no one minds, if you signed up, I will send you2how to get that. So if you're shy and you don't want3to make a comment tonight, you have another close to4a month to do so.5The first half of the meeting, we're going6to have Entergy and NorthStar talk to us about the7license transfer and the post-shutdown decommissioning8activities report. And then the NRC is going to walk9us through the process that they used to decide10whether they're going to accept the license transfer11application. 12One of the things I want to remind13everybody is that this is an NDCAP meeting and we're14a Panel that was created by the state, which means we15follow all Open Meeting Laws and we follow Robert's16Rules of Order and a charter that we all developed two17and a half years ago.18So what I would ask is that everybody sort19of respect how we run our meetings. They've gone20smoothly in the past, so I'm hoping that they will go21smoothly tonight. And I think we're going to start22what we normally do at -- at our meetings, Joe Lynch,23who is the Senior Government Affairs Manager, gives us24an update on the decommissioning of the plant. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 8So for those of you who have been here1before, this will be like the next chapter or whatever2in the book. For some of you, this may be the first3time that you hear a decommissioning report from Joe. 4And everything that -- the presentations that Joe5gives are on -- the Entergy has a website, V Y6decommissioning dot com. So if you're really7intrigued and want to watch everything that's happened8before -- or see everything that's happened before you9can easily catch up with that. 10So I guess we'll turn it over to Joe.11MR. LYNCH: Thank you, Kate. 12Next slide, please. 13As Kate has mentioned, my name is Joe14Lynch. I'm a Senior Government Affairs Manager for15Entergy Vermont Yankee. I'm going to provide you with16a brief update on the status of decommissioning, the17decommissioning trust fund, and some of the activities18that we have moving towards the transaction. 19Next slide, please. Next slide.20One of the key projects right now at the21site is the construction of the second of two dry fuel22storage pads. The construction on the second pad23started back in 2016. There was a break over the24winter period due to weather. We restarted25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 9construction of the pad on March 13th. We've been1moving right along with progress. Just this week, we2completed the reinforcing bar placement for the second3pad. So the pad is now ready to accept concrete. And4that -- that pour will be scheduled, we believe, next5week, weather depending.6In addition to that, we've been going7through the efforts of getting ready for our 2017 dry8fuel storage campaign. At this point, we're9estimating that if we start over the next couple10weeks, which is our target, we'll be loading11approximately twenty dry casks in 2017. Then again,12we'll take a break over the winter for weather reasons13and we'll complete the remaining dry casks. There's14a total of forty-five casks that have yet to be15loaded. There are thirteen on the pad right now for16our total of fifty-eight. 17Our target is to have all fuel transferred18either in the late third quarter of 2018 or early19fourth quarter of 2018. Again, part of that is20weather dependent and ensuring that our -- we meet our21-- our schedule. 22Next slide, please.23Some current pictures in the upper right-24hand corner, that is the correct configuration of the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 10first pad with the thirteen casks. We recently1rearranged that configuration to be ready for the2acceptance of the new loaded cask, which I had3mentioned we'll start very soon. 4The picture in the lower left is the5pouring of what is known as the leveling slab. So6this is essentially the -- a pad that is put in place. 7We can then place the rebar on top of it. That was8done recently and that sets the stage for then9constructing the second pad. 10Next slide, please.11On the right-hand side, you can see12workers putting the rebar in place -- the reinforcing13bar in place on top of that leveling slab. And then14you can see, in the lower left, the rebar being rigged15in place. This is very heavy steel that is placed in16a -- in a very detailed configuration. It is then17wired together and in advance of us pouring the18concrete. 19Next slide, please.20We've been talking about water management21for about a year and a half now. As many of you know22from previous meetings, we have water entering into23the lower elevations of our turbine building. Over24that period of time, we have made measures to capture25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 11that water stored on site and then ultimately ship it.1We continue to monitor the intrusion water2and address it by making repairs to any cracks or3crevices where water is coming in. We continue those4efforts and they've been very successful in reducing5the amount of intrusion water. This time of year and6in the springtime is -- is typically a time of the7year that you see an increase in the groundwater8elevation and, therefore, an increase in that9intrusion. Because of the efforts we've been able to10maintain and manage that to very low numbers. I don't11have today's number, but I think we're looking at12about three -- about six hundred gallons a day is --13is the number that -- that we're seeing.14The groundwater is captured, placed into15frac tanks, tested and then shipped to EnergySolutions16where they have a licensed disposal site in Tennessee. 17Right now, we're shipping about three per month at the18present intrusion rate. And we've shipped five19hundred and seventeen thousand gallons to date. 20Next slide, please. Next slide.21In regards to the two efforts that are22necessary to go forward with the transaction, one, of23course, will be discussed in a very short matter of24time as the NRC has been requested to take a look at25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 12a license transfer application, as well as the revised1P.S.D.A.R. We're also going through the process of2seeking approval from the State of Vermont Public3Service Board through the Certificate of Public Good4Process.5The first round of discovery requests on6us were sent out on March 17th. We provided responses7on April 26th. There has been a request by Department8of Public Service and others to extend -- extend that9a bit because of certain documents that are -- are10confidential in nature. So we had to file a motion to11ensure that these confidential documents were treated12in a certain way, and that those -- those entities13that intervened would -- would respect them that way. 14There's also a couple of documents that15are very sensitive to NorthStar's business that also16need special treatment. And we're going through the17process right now of getting that protocol worked out.18So the second round of discovery requests19on us were supposed to be May 10th, but because of the20delay in this handling of documents, that will be21delayed to be about three weeks after all documents22have been produced. 23There's also been some motions by some of24the intervenors, including New England Coalition,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 13asking for partial summary judgment going back to some1earlier dockets on some orders that had already been2made. Those are going through the process in the3Public Service Board. 4Bottom line, very detailed, very5comprehensive process of going through this approval6in the State of Vermont. And we're hoping that this7will all take place over the next year or so with8approval at the end of first quarter 2018. 9Next slide, please. Next slide.10An update on the Nuclear Decommissioning11Trust Fund at the end of March, last reported the12Decommissioning Trust Fund was at five hundred and13sixty-eight point nine million dollars. The most14current number at the end of April was five hundred15and seventy million dollars. That increase was due to16positive market performance, offset by the qualified17reimbursements that we have made from the trust and18some of the fund expenses that we have to pay,19essentially taxes. 20So to date in 2017, we've made just under21twelve million dollars in qualified withdrawals. 22We've earned about twenty-one point seven million23dollars in market gains and paid one point four24million dollars in -- in expenses.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 14The second trust that we've been1maintaining is a Site Restoration Trust. This is2wholly funded by Entergy. We have made four payments3of five million dollars, or twenty million dollars. 4However, due to growth of the trust fund, that5currently stands at twenty-three point six million6dollars at the end of April. And we have one five7million dollars contribution yet to be made at the end8of this year. 9Next slide, please.10Insofar as our communications and11providing information to the public, we continue,12obviously, to participate in this Panel. We continue13to do speaking engagements, media interviews, local14advertising, and we continue to be very strong15partners with our community. On occasion, we are able16to do tours at the site. They, of course, are going17to be impacted by ongoing site activities. So we need18to be mindful to a lot of work that's going on at the19site. So we ask, if we have these type of tours, we20get advance notice. 21And then of course, we continue to put22information out through our website V Y23decommissioning dot com. And I'm happy to report that24the website has been updated recently and it continues25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 15to be updated. This is a screenshot. If you were to1go on to V Y decommissioning dot com, you will see2kind of the updated website that now has search3capabilities. And it is being updated constantly with4the latest information. 5And we're also going through the process6of renaming a lot of these documents to make it easier7for individuals to find them and kind of migrate their8way through. There's been a lot of information put9out. And we're committed to making sure that we can10get that information out efficiently. 11And unless there's any questions, that was12kind of the end of what I planned and prepared, Kate.13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great; thank you, Joe. 14Just so everybody -- I'm not sure how many15people have the paper agenda. And we're going to16flash it up on the screen later. The public comment17portion of this meeting will start in about an hour. 18And if you want to speak and haven't signed up, there19are sign-up sheets over on the table. We will have a20break after the presentations are made. So you don't21have to storm the table right now. There will be22opportunity between when this portion ends and when23the public comment period begins. 24Next, I want to invite Scott State, who is25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 16the C.E.O. of NorthStar, and Mike Twomey, who is the1Vice President for External Affairs of Entergy, to --2I guess, you're going to walk us through the license3transfer and possibly the P.S.D.A.R., but I'll let you4tell us what you're going to talked about. 5MR. TWOMEY: Thank you, Kate.6This is Mike Twomey on behalf of Entergy. 7This is a joint presentation between Entergy and8NorthStar. I have a limited role at the frontend of9the presentation and I'll be turning it over to Scott10in just -- just a few minutes. 11I want to thank the Panel and the12chairwoman for inviting us to participate in this13meeting tonight, provide additional information about14this transaction. So with no more introductory15remarks, I'll go to the next slide.16Start briefly with what I hope is a17complementary update without duplicating anything that18Joe Lynch just covered. Right now, we have19approximately a hundred and fifty employees at the20site. That is our -- our staffing level that we21expect to maintain through approximately the third or22fourth quarter of 2018. The next major milestone is23the completion of the dry fuel storage project. 24So when that work that Joe was referring25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 17to earlier is completed, when all of the canisters1have been moved on to the pad, all the spent fuel2moved out of the pool, we will have a staffing3reduction at that time. Along the way, we will4continue to have our communications with the Panel, as5well as employees and regulatory bodies. 6Joe mentioned we've got a certificate of7public good pending in front of the Public Service8Board. In -- in general, for those of you who weren't9that familiar with it, it's an application seeking10approval from the Public Service Board for the11transaction that we've proposed.12We have a similar, but -- but separate,13filing pending in front of the Nuclear Regulatory14Commission. We also need approval from that federal15agency for the transaction. 16Joe spent some time talking about the17discovery issues. I'll say that right now the18procedural schedule contemplates one more public19hearing opportunity, similar to the one that we had20earlier in the year. I don't believe the date of that21has been nailed down. I think it's currently22September 5th or 6th, depending on -- on availability. 23That date, itself, may be adjusted, depending on where24we are with the discovery process and the -- and the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 18testimony process. 1We will have evidentiary hearings,2technical hearings, I believe, is the right term in3front of the Public Service Board, late in the year. 4Those hearings are currently scheduled for November. 5But it is -- is possible that the discovery issues and6the testimony deadlines will impact the schedule for7the technical hearing. So I would say that at this8point those -- those are not set in stone.9We have requested that the board take10action on the application by the end of the first11quarter of 2018. We obviously have no power to compel12the schedule for the board. We've simply told them13that -- that that's the schedule we -- we would hope14they could meet. And we'll just see how the process15unfolds. 16We've got the license transfer application17pending at the NRC. And NorthStar submitted an18updated post-shutdown decommissioning activities19report on April 6th. And I'm going to let Scott talk20about those details. But in general, those of you21who've been following this closely, Entergy filed a22P.S.D.A.R. back in November of 2014.23This document, this new P.S.D.A.R. would24be a substitute for the earlier filed Entergy document25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 19and would become the operative document for the1project if the transaction is approved by both the NRC2and the P.S.B. The -- the timeline at the bottom3there on -- on this slide is -- is the timeline that4was reflected in the post-shutdown decommissioning5activities report that Entergy submitted back in 2014. 6Everyone knows we ceased commercial operations in7December of 2014. The reactor was permanently8defueled in January 2015. We contemplated fuel9transfer by 2020. 10So the first update that you've gotten in11the last few months is that we now believe we can12complete that fuel transfer by the third or fourth13quarter of 2018, which is a two-year improvement on14the fuel transfer schedule that we had originally15anticipated.16That means that the SAFSTORE dormancy17period would commence under our ownership, if we18retain ownership, after the fuel is moved to the pad19in 2018. And that will be of some indeterminate20length. I don't want to go into too much detail21tonight because we're really focused on the license22transfer application. But that SAFSTORE period will23be however long it needs to be under the requirements24of the settlement agreement that we have at the State25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 20of Vermont, the funding of the Nuclear Decommissioning1Trust Fund, and the decommissioning cost estimate that2we have for the project under Entergy's ownership.3And so the rest of the dates are -- are,4again, dates that would be in -- in effect if Entergy5retains the ownership of the site. 6So if we go to the next slide? 7I'll just -- you know, introduce this8concept again, which is that one of the primary9benefits of the proposed transaction is that it10substantially accelerates the safe decommissioning of11the plant under ownership of a company and -- and with12work, with a team that it's put together that has the13capacity and the experience and the expertise to14complete the decommissioning project on a much quicker15timeline than under Entergy's ownership. 16And so with that, I'll turn the17presentation over to Scott State.18MR. STATE: Thank you, Mike. 19And thank you, Kate. 20I'm Scott State. I'm the Chief Executive21Officer of NorthStar. Just with a show of hands, how22many folks are here that haven't been to any of these23meetings before where we've spoken? Not too many. 24That -- that's good. That means there's, I think,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 21good engagement among the community here. I'm not1going to go over a lot of things that I've gone over2before. But I do want to, initially here, cover who3our team is.4NorthStar, if -- if you go around the5room, you can see we've put up some large photographs6this evening to show you some of the large-scale7projects that -- that we've done. And I'm going to8get to that in a little bit, but it's important, just9in terms of the scale of work that we do, as we10consider how we would do this project. And you know,11what you'll find is that the size of projects that12we've done in many -- many cases bound the size of13Vermont Yankee. And -- and I'll talk through that a14little bit more as we get into it.15In addition to ourselves on our team,16we've got AREVA and we've talked about AREVA at past17meetings. AREVA's a large nuclear services business. 18It's a French-owned company. The subsidiary that we19work with is a U.S. based firm in Washington D.C. And20they have a couple of specific things they're going to21do for us on this project. 22One is they are going to segment the23reactor vessel and the reactor vessel internals. And24that -- that's a significant component of the project25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 22in that it's got a high degree of highly radioactive1material. That's one of the first activities that2we'll do. AREVA will also be assisting us over the3many years that we will be caretaker for the spent4nuclear fuel that will remain at the site until the5Department of Energy comes and removes it.6A second subcontractor is Burns and7McDonnell. Burns and McDonnell is a large engineering8firm based in Kansas City. And they are specifically9going to support us with some engineering activities10and some licensing activities as we do this project.11And our third supplier is Waste Control12Specialists, or W.C.S., based in Texas, an important13component of this team because they take the14radioactive waste or the material that comes from the15decommissioning project and it goes to their site in16Texas for disposal. 17W.C.S. is part of -- is the disposal site18for the Texas and Vermont Compact. So by statute, the19material created at this project will have a right to20be disposed at that site and they're are partner on21this project as well. 22Turning to the next slide, I'll let Mike23start off. This is a transition period between24Entergy and -- and NorthStar.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 23MR. TWOMEY: So for very briefly, we shut1the facility down in 2014 and over the next several2years we've been focused on getting the dry fuel3storage campaign completed. That is taking the spent4nuclear fuel that's currently in the spent nuclear5fuel pool and moving it into the canisters that are on6the dry cask storage cask pads in the yard. And the7-- the effort to do that, when completed, will have8removed approximately ninety-five percent or more of9the radioactive material from the plant and isolated10that to the ISFSI pad.11The next step after you do that is to12focus on the major dismantling work. And as the owner13of that facility in 2014, we were hearing loud and14clear from the community, from the state, from all15stakeholders, that the primary concern was that this16site be decommissioned as quickly as possible, while17-- while safely, but -- but not have the site languish18for -- for sixty years. 19And so in an effort to be responsive to20those concerns, we evaluated the potential for another21owner of that facility who is an expert in22decommissioning, and -- and made the determination23that this project could be turned over to a new owner24who could do it as safely as we could, but more cost25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 24effectively and more efficiently than we could. And1then that presents the opportunity for this2transaction that we're talking about this evening. 3And with that, I'll turn it over to Scott4to talk about what work they would do if the5transaction were approved.6MR. STATE: So if -- if this transaction7does get approved in 2018, we will take ownership of8the site. And the first two years of our project work9will be focused on segmenting the reactor vessel and10the reactor vessel internals. And that will take the11removal of radiological material out of the plant to12about ninety-nine percent of what was the original13source term, leaving about one percent residual14radioactive material that we will be removing, with a15very vast majority of the volume of material coming16out of the site after that. And this is contamination17on concrete and that sort of thing that we will be18dealing with post the removal of the vessel in the19internals.20So you can see the title of this chart is21actually Vermont Yankee Contaminated Site Cleanup. 22And it's -- it's an important distinction that we make23when we look at a project like this. We aren't24nuclear power plant operators. And we don't really25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 25view this specifically as a cleanup of a facility1that's a nuclear power plant. We view it as2decommissioning of a contaminated site. 3And all around this room, you see pictures4of large projects that we've done where we've5decommissioned some type of contaminated site. And it6may have been contaminated with radiological materials7or P.C.B.s or mercury or other hazardous components or8asbestos, but -- but everything that we do as a9company is -- involves remediating contaminated10facilities or sites. And that's exactly how we view11Vermont Yankee.12So you know, our project durations here,13you can see that once we get the vessel out, and the14internals, those are segmented, they're packaged, and15they are shipped to Texas. We've got about a six-year16program planned at this point in time for the final17decommissioning activities which would take the site18to what would be determined a partial site release. 19And it's called a partial site release20because the ISFSI with the spent fuel in the -- in the21canisters that are -- are there, that piece of the22site can't be released until that fuel is taken away. 23So site-wise, you know, all but a very small number of24acres can be released in -- in roughly 2026. And that25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 26would be our target schedule at this point.1And then how long we -- we have the ISFSI2in place is -- is really not in our control. We3certainly would like to see D.O.E. come and take that4fuel away. Once that piece of the project is done, we5will remove the ISFSI pad. And all of that remaining6material and the site then will be -- will go for a7final license determination and a full site release.8So as I mentioned, as a company, NorthStar9has decommissioned thousands of facilities of various10sizes with various types of contaminants. There's a11number of projects back here that have radiological12components, some of them significantly larger in13various aspects of the work. What we've done with14these -- with these photographs -- and we'll probably15present these again at -- at future meetings. And you16know, if folks want to talk when we're at the break17with any of our people, we've got quite a few of our18employees here this evening that can kind of walk you19through these various projects. 20But there's placards on each project that21show you the volume of contaminated concrete metal and22soil that was involved in each one of them. And then23there's also a line on those that show you what the24equivalent or the same amount -- materials are in25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 27Vermont Yankee. And it will give you kind of an idea,1I think, that we've got a lot of bounding projects on2a comparative basis.3We also have a short video which we'll4show in just a few minutes. And it's -- a lot of it5is time lapse footage of us removing large structures,6commercial industrial structures, and that type of7thing. And you can see -- over, you know, less than8ten minutes, you'll see many years of work that we've9done on a time lapse basis. 10So going forward to the next -- excuse me11-- three charts, this chart -- on each of the next12three charts, you'll see a green box. The green box13is the volume of material that we will be removing on14an annual basis at Vermont Yankee. Vermont Yankee is15a six-year project with various phases. So on an16annual basis, we look at how much material we would17generate in each of three primary waste classes;18concrete, metals, and soil.19So in terms of concrete, I don't know if20you can read this in the audience or not, but the --21the primary large structures that we deal with that22have concrete are going to be commercial. Power23plants -- you know, nuclear power plants have a24significant amount of concrete because it's -- you25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 28know, it's the way the plants are built and it has1shielding capabilities. But for the most part, the2very large amounts of concrete waste that are3generated in decommissioning projects come from4commercial jobs. 5And as you can see, the -- the largest6facility here, an industrial facility, which happened7to be a smelter, had two hundred thousand tons of8concrete per year. And the reason this is important9is in a project like this, these types of projects are10logistics jobs. You're -- you're moving volumes of11material and your ability to move volumes of material12will determine how quickly you can get the work done.13So you know, just on a comparative basis,14Vermont Yankee is about sixteen thousand tons of15concrete per year. Our largest project that we've16done in the last five to seven years is two hundred17thousand. All of these projects, there's18approximately fifteen I think here, are -- are, you19know, roughly double or more the size of the amount of20concrete that we will generate and remove at Vermont21Yankee.22Similarly, the next slide shows metals. 23In a project like this, the primary metals in a24nuclear plant are going to be rebar. Joe showed you25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 29the construction of the ISFSI. The laying of rebar. 1If you are familiar with how this plant was built, the2-- the structures of this plant have a lot of very3heavy rebar in them. So we will be breaking the4concrete out and separating the metal, typically, the5rebar mesh, and packaging all of this for disposal at6the W.C.S. site in Texas.7So from -- from this figure, you can see8that as far as metals on projects, there are a lot of9these projects that are power plants. And a fossil10plant, interestingly enough, has a lot more structural11steel in it than a nuclear plant. The structural12materials in a nuclear plant, a lot of those are13actually concrete. In a fossil plant, there are14typically large steel members and then a lot of rebar15mesh, as well. 16But you know, here, you can see we've got17a number of projects, some two to three times the size18of Vermont Yankee, on an annual production basis of19metals that we would have removed and disposed of.20And then the last slide deals directly21with soils. And when we went through and looked at22these kinds of projects, we actually -- we do a lot of23heavy civil environmental work where we maybe build24levees and dams and that sort of thing. We took all25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 30of that out because that's really not dealing with1contaminated soils. This is all projects that deal2with soil that has some type of contamination. 3And you know, at power plant sites, that4could be things like coal ash and a number of5different things, soils that maybe come out of an6industrial facility that have mercury or P.H.s or7P.C.B.s or something like that. At Vermont Yankee,8we're looking at a site that's, you know, likely going9to have more radiological contamination in the soil10than these other types of components.11In one of the pictures in the back corner12is a project that we did a couple of years ago at the13Hanford site where we removed two hundred and fifty14thousand tons of soil, radiologically contaminated15soil. And by comparison, we -- we think the, you16know, soil volume, as we currently are looking at it,17is about twenty-eight thousand tons at Vermont Yankee. 18So a project roughly ten times the size of Vermont19Yankee in terms of remediating radiologically20contaminated soils.21MR. TWOMEY: All right. So I think we22covered this, but the -- but the milestones then are23-- we are -- we have requested that the NRC take24action on the license transfer amendment by the end of25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 31the year. I'll make the same disclaimer I made with1respect to the Public Service Board. We have no2ability to control the schedule at the NRC So we've3simply made the request. And we are hopeful that if4we have submitted all the proper material and they've5got the information that they need, that a decision6could be reached. But that's a hope and a target, not7a -- not a definitive date.8And the Public Service Board, I mentioned9March 2018 was the -- was the request. And the spent10fuel movement to the ISFSI, I'd say that's an element11over which we have much greater control. That's --12that's operational control on our side. The dry cask13campaign for 2017 should begin next week to move14twenty of the remaining forty-five casks. That would15leave twenty-five casks to be moved next year. If we16stay on schedule, we should be done by -- by the17fourth quarter. 18And then if we receive approvals from the19NRC and the Public Service Board, and if those20approvals do not contain any conditions that are21unacceptable to the parties, we would hope to close22the transaction at the end of 2018. 23And with that, I believe there's a short24video that the -- our expert driver over there is25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 32going to tee up and get moving.1(A video was played.)2MR. STATE: This is a project that we did3a couple of years ago. And it's basically an entire4city block in the middle of Los Angeles. And so you5can imagine the logistics, trying to get material out,6fifty thousand tons of concrete. And essentially, we7-- we removed this building one floor at a time,8taking the material from the top to the bottom,9putting it on transport vehicles, and taking it out of10the middle of the City of Los Angeles. And when we11got done, that's a site much like Vermont Yankee will12look like.13This project, we did about four or five14years ago. This is Launch Pad 39-B, which has some15historical significance. It's the launch pad that the16Challenger launched from. I'm not sure if it's the17last launch from that pad. This video doesn't really18give you necessarily a good idea of the scale of this19structure. It's -- it's incredibly large and there20were lot of constraints on this. We couldn't drop21material like this to the ground. The pad -- the22launch pad itself had to be retained and kept in good23order because they had a mobile launch structure they24were going to use on the pad after we finished. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 33This just shows some of the specially1equipment we use that -- that we will be using here,2as well. And then this is a time lapse of the3structure over a period of a number of months as we4picked and peeled away all the pieces and -- and took5the entire structure apart.6This is a structure in the middle of Las7Vegas. Anybody that's been there would probably8recognize the facility. This -- this was a twenty-9seven-story building that was constructed, never10opened, had structural defects, and had to be removed. 11It sits right on Las Vegas Boulevard, so again a very12significant logistics challenge to get that much13concrete out on a busy corner, another successful job14about two years ago. 15This is a project at an Ivy School. We do16a lot of work in the northeast, removing old17facilities at the -- the Ivy League schools and -- and18other facilities in the Boston area. And so this is19a project that we've -- I think we're still conducting20today, but it's some work I believe we did last year.21What you see there is the concrete and22rebar mesh that's -- that's generally mixed together. 23This is a project that's larger than Vermont in every24respect. It's a powerplant in New York. And it's a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 34project that we are just finishing up some of the1soils remediation at this point in time and receding. 2But you can see this is a project that was done in the3city environment, and large boilers, so a lot of4metal, a lot of concrete, a very old structure, a lot5of contamination from the types of fuels used here. 6And, you know, at the end of the day a site that --7that went off without a hitch. And, you know,8logistically probably or size-wise, the property is,9you know, similar size to Vermont Yankee, as well.10Those are stacks that are somewhat similar11to the Vermont Yankee stacks. Those are about three12days apiece using specialty equipment that we use the13stack removal. 14So this is a New York Power Authority15plant that we did about a year and a half ago. We16finished a very large project. This plant actually17has a boiler. We believe it's the largest boiler that18-- that may have ever been constructed. Massive steel19structure to deal with in this -- this facility, and20a pretty -- pretty intense environment in terms of21working, essentially, in the City of New York, taking22this plant down. 23We do take down a number of structures in24the middle of New York City. We removed the entire25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 35St. Vincent's Hospital. We did all the renovation1work at Madison Square Garden. We did most of the2removal of Yankee Stadium. None of those projects are3depicted here. They're not particularly relevant to4Vermont Yankee. But we're accustomed to doing very5large projects in -- in complicated and difficult6places.7There's some key -- you know, key things8about this kind of project and about Vermont Yankee. 9You know, we -- we do a lot of decontamination and10removal of environmental contaminants inside these11structures. When you peel off the outside of the12structure, then you're just removing structural13materials and steel in an environment that's been14decontaminated. 15And this is another facility in Las Vegas16that we did last summer, a large multi-block structure17that we did on a very accelerated timeline. We18actually did this project in about nine months. It19was a Fastrac site. One of the things you don't see20here is this is a site that we actually imploded. And21I didn't want to have video of implosions because22we're not going to use implosions at Vermont Yankee. 23I didn't want to give anybody the visual of the24massive cloud of dust that rises when you do that type25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 36of thing. 1We do have a photograph in the back, left2corner of a cooling tower at the Savannah River3nuclear site that we also took down by implosion. It4was a clean tower that our government had built for5about one hundred million dollars and never used. So6we imploded it and removed that a few years ago. 7But, yeah, this is a site when you can do8implosion, it's a very fast way to take down9structures of this type. And you get the material to10the ground, you process the concrete out and the metal11out. 12So of note, you know, we've stated a13number of times that we're a very safety conscious and14environmental regulatory compliant company and -- and15every project you saw there was operated in that type16of manner. 17That's it.18CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you very19much. 20Now, I want to introduce, or have them21introduce themselves, the representatives that have22come here from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 23They're going to explain the process that they go24through in order to approve or not approve the license25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 37transfer that Entergy and NorthStar are asking for. 1And again, I want to thank you folks for2coming tonight. And I know we'll have some questions3and comments for you after your presentation. So4thank you.5MS. KOCK: My name's Andrea Kock. I'm the6Deputy Director of our Decommissioning Division in NRC7Headquarters from Rockville, Maryland. I also wanted8to thank Kate and her colleagues of the Panel for9inviting us here tonight, as well as the Vermont10delegation. 11We do appreciate the opportunity to be12here and we are pleased to be here. And I mean that13sincerely because it is important for us to consider14your comments with regard to our regulatory processes. 15It's important that we touch base with you and16consider those comments as part of our process. We do17very much appreciate the invitation this evening.18As Kate mentioned, the main purpose of us19being here tonight is to gather your comments with20regard to our review of the application we have before21us for transfer of the Vermont Yankee license to22NorthStar. And Kate also mentioned that we recently,23just this week, issued a federal notice asking for24comments on the application. So this is your25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 38opportunity to get your comments in early. 1And I also wanted to mention that we're2transcribing your comments during the meeting tonight. 3So if you have a comment you've made the comment at4the meeting, there isn't a need for you to submit an5additional comment on the docket to the NRC.6What we're going to do tonight is provide7you an overview, as Kate mentioned, of what we look at8when we look at a transfer application, our process,9and the criteria that we use. And I want to assure10you that that review will be independent and thorough. 11As one of the cornerstones of the way the NRC operates12as an independent regulator, it's very important to us13as an organization and it's important to me as an14individual that that's the way we operate. 15And part of us being independent and16thorough is getting out in the community to hear from17you, but also getting out to the sites that we18regulate. And in that vein, we did visit the Vermont19Yankee site today to get a sense of what's going on20there from a decommissioning perspective. And I think21that helps us to put our own eyes on the site and22gather our own thoughts so that we make sure we are23being independent, as well as having a good24understanding of what's going on, on the ground.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 39I'll just take a minute here to introduce1the NRC staff that are going to present this evening. 2First, we're going to hear from Bruce Watson. He's3our Chief of the Reactor Decommissioning Branch. He4has extensive experience in decommissioning and he's5going to go over for you just an overview of the6decommissioning process and our process for review of7the transfer application. 8And then we're going to hear from Jack9Parrott, here to my left. He's our project manager10for the Vermont Yankee site. He's going to go into a11little bit more detail for you about the process we12follow and some of the considerations that we look at13in the transfer application.14And then lastly, we'll hear from Mike15Dusaniwskyj. He's an economist who works for the NRC. 16He looks at all of the decommissioning funding reviews17that we do to make sure that plants have adequate18decommissioning funding to decommission. 19I just also wanted to mention that we have20Ray Powell here. He's from our Philadelphia office in21the region. He's sitting here in the front row. If22you have questions about our oversight process, an23important thing that Bruce will touch on is that the24NRC's oversight doesn't stop when a plant goes into25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 40decommissioning. We do extensive inspections1periodically and Ray's group leads those inspections2from our regional office in Philadelphia.3And just one final note and then I'll turn4it over to Bruce. I did want to echo something that5Kate said. Our review is currently ongoing of the6application. So we haven't made any conclusions about7whether NorthStar is financially or technically8qualified to hold the license. We're still in the9initial stages of our review. So we won't be able to10give you any bottom-line conclusions about what we11think about this or that. 12And I don't want you to take that as us13being standoffish or -- or hiding something. We're --14just we're not at that point of process. We can tell15you what we look at, the criteria that we go by, but16we haven't drawn any conclusions one way or the other17at this point in the review.18We can let you know where we are in the19process. We're happy to answer questions. We would20really appreciate your comments. And because we21haven't made any conclusions, some of our responses22may be just thank you for your comment because we23don't at this point have a conclusion. And I wanted24to make that clear. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 41At this point, I'll turn it over to Bruce1Watson. And again, thank you for inviting us.2MR. WATSON: Well, thank you again for3having us come out tonight and for the invitation. 4I want to give a real quick, brief5overview of -- of a few of the items before we get6into some of the more detail from the staff. On slide7one, I just remind everybody that the NRC role in8decommissioning is to ensure that the facility or site9is removed from service, and that the radiological10conditions will meet the license -- criteria for11license termination. 12And we have two conditions in which that13license can be terminated, under unrestricted use or14restricted use. To date, all decommissioning sites in15the United States, including the ten power reactors16that had been completed decommissioning and had their17licenses terminated, have been released for18unrestricted use, meaning the owner can use the19property for whatever purpose they have intended to do20in the future. 21And for this particular site, I believe22both Entergy and NorthStar will be -- have the23criteria that they're going to release the site,24terminate the license for unrestricted release.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 42Also, I want to point out that once the1license is terminated, or in parallel with the license2terminations process, the actual restoration of the3site is up to the owner and the state and its4stakeholders. So once the radioactive material's5removed, they're free to do whatever they choose to do6for the site. 7Can we go to the next slide, please? 8In April 2017, a revised P.S.D.A.R., post-9shutdown activities -- post-shutdown decommissioning10activities report, was submitted to the NRC by11NorthStar. It is contingent on the sale and license12transfer.13One of the key features of this P.S.D.A.R.14is that NorthStar plans to complete the15decommissioning by as early as 2016. We will review16the -- excuse me -- 2026. Excuse me. And we will17review the P.S.D.A.R. with the same rigor that we18reviewed the -- the Entergy P.S.D.A.R. that was19submitted in 2014. And two of the -- one of the20guidance documents that you may be familiar with is21Reg Guide 1.185. It's available on our public22website. 23And of course, we've issued the Federal24Register notice and we will accept -- be accepting25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 43comments on both the license transfer and the1P.S.D.A.R. And this will end on June 23rd, 2017. 2And with that, I'll turn it over to Jack3Parrott to talk about the license transfer process.4MR. PARROTT: Okay. If we could go to the5next slide, please. 6So reactor decommissioning license7transfers, they are a relatively common occurrence. 8The license for Vermont Yankee, which previously9transferred to Entergy in 2002. NRC has regulations10in place to ensure that reactor licenses are11transferred to a technically and financially viable12company. Transfers of licenses to facilitate the13decommissioning of reactors have occurred twice before14for the Zion and La Crosse plants. 15Next slide, please.16Our review process, the application for17license transfer was submitted in February -- on18February 9th, 2017. The license transfer documents19are available on our public website on the U.R.L. on20the slide there. Acceptance review was documented --21our acceptance review of the -- of the license22application was documented by letter dated April 6th,232017. 24Our acceptance review looked to see that25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 44the technical and financial re -- review topics are1covered. But nevertheless, there still could be a2request for additional information from our subsequent3review. 4The notice of consideration was published5in the Federal Register yesterday. It includes an6opportunity for hearing and an opportunity for public7comment. The opportunity for hearing and intervention8is open to any person whose interest may be affected9by NRC action on this application. The opportunity10remains open twenty days after the notice of11consideration that was published yesterday.12The -- the opportunity for public comment13is a thirty-day period where written comments can be14submitted for consideration by the staff during the15review -- our review process. 16As Andrea mentioned, our technical and17financial review is underway. If found acceptable, a18safety evaluation report, an order, and a license19amendment will be issued by the NRC.20Next -- next slide, please.21The -- the two things that we review,22primary areas are the technical qualifications and23financial qualifications. The technical qualification24review areas focus on the management, the technical25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 45support, and onsite organization to ensure that they1are involved in, informed of, and dedicated to the2safe operation of the plant, and to determine if3sufficient qualified technical resources will be4provided for safe operations. 5All requirements -- this is an important6point. All of the requirements of the current plant7operator and owner at the time of transfer, should --8should the transfer be approved, will be -- will9transfer to the new -- the new company, NorthStar. 10Implementation of those requirements is the key and11will be under the continued oversight of NRC.12At this point, I'd like to turn over to13Mike Dusaniwskyj to talk about the financial14qualification review.15MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: Good evening. The16financial qualification review in this particular17license transfer is going to be focusing on18decommissioning funding assurance, foreign ownership19control or domination, and the price and its indemnity20and nuclear insurance. In this regard, staff will21seek reasonable assurance that the licensee maintains22adequate funding to complete decommissioning to NRC23standards and terminate the license and adequate24financial protection remains available on-site and25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 46off-site commensurate with the risk of the1decommissioning plant. 2Next slide.3The NRC maintains a comprehensive4regulatory -- regulation-based framework to provide5assurance that the new licensee for a license transfer6maintains the financial means to safely decommission7the facility and terminate the license. This8framework includes consideration for spent fuel9management and ISFSI decommissioning. ISFSI stands10for independent state -- I'm sorry; I've forgotten11again.12MR. PARROTT: Independent Spent Fuel13Storage Installation.14MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: Thank you.15CHAIR O'CONNOR: Also known as the dry16cask storage pad for us civilians.17MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: Yes. 18Through our operations, licensees are19required to certify that adequate funding for20decommissioning will be available when needed. For a21plant that is transitioned to decommissioning, the22same requirements apply and licensees provide evidence23of adequate -- adequate funding through annual reports24submitted to the NRC. These reports separately25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 47provide transparency in the license -- in the1license's use of decommissioning trust funds, the2estimated costs for -- to complete decommissioning and3management of spent fuel, available funding to cover4these costs and any material changes to the trust5agreements or other allowable funding mechanisms. For6a license transfer, these responsibilities are7incumbent on the new licensee. 8Next slide, please.9And as -- as a summary of this, the NRC10regulations require licensees to maintain adequate11financial assurance for decommissioning at all times. 12Oversight of financial assurance continues until a13license is terminated. Licensees submit a financial14assurance status reports annually. The report15includes amounts spent on decommissioning remaining16for trust fund balance and estimated cost to complete17decommissioning. The report is reviewed for a18reasonable assurance of the adequacy of19decommissioning funding. 20And with that, I'll hand it over now to21Bruce.22MR. WATSON: Thank you, Mike. 23I thought I'd conclude our -- our24presentation with a brief discussion on our inspection25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 48program. And I want to be clear that our inspection1program continues to ensure the safe decommissioning2of the site until the license is terminated. We have3a dedicated inspection manual chapter for power4reactor decommissioning. It's available on our5website. It's I.M.C., or Inspection Manual Chapter,62561. It contains core inspection procedures that7have to be done every year and a variety of8discretionary inspection procedures which are done9commensurate with the work that is being performed.10Our inspection frequency and the amount of11time we spend in the inspection process will be12commensurate with the amount of activities on-site. 13So we will be coordinating closely with the licensee14performing the decommissioning activities. So they'll15see us a lot when there's a lot of activities going16on. And they won't -- won't see us as often if17there's no activities or very little activities going18on. 19We are required to conduct the inspection20-- inspection procedures annually. And these21inspection -- our inspection reports are publicly22available unless they can turn -- contain information23that's specific to security or safeguards. 24So with that, I'd like to close our25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 49discussion. I want to thank you for your -- for1listening. And we look forward to your comments.2CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great; thank you very3much. 4What we're going to do now is take a very5short period of time to have the Panel ask questions6and comments. And I'm going to tell everybody right7now not everyone is going to get to ask a question or8make a comment. And what I would ask is, because our9time is so limited, that we keep them to, you know,10one or two minutes because we want to have enough time11for anyone and everyone in the public who wants to12make a comment or ask a question to do so. 13And I'm going to -- because I have the14mic, I'm going to ask the first question, which I know15is one that has come up with the public and members of16the Panel. And it's a question, I think, for the NRC,17NorthStar, and Entergy, if you all would like to18answer it.19As the NRC just outlined, one of the main20points that you're going to look at is the financial21assurance that NorthStar gives you that they -- that22they can complete the decommissioning within the23amount of money they say they are. And one of the big24questions that has come up is if the decommissioning25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 50is not completed and the money and the nuclear1decommissioning trust fund runs out, who is2responsible for paying for the -- the shortfall?3And one of the issues, I think, that comes4up around this is, since Vermont Yankee is a merchant5plant, which means it's not getting any money from6ratepayers, there's no ratepayers to go back to -- to7get the money. So I guess our question really is who8-- and we -- we know we've heard that there won't run9out of money, but there's concern here that there will10-- there could be a shortfall of funds. 11So we'd like to know who picks -- who's on12the hook for the money?13MS. KOCK: I keep forgetting to turn that14on. I can start out and then turn it over to some of15our experts. And then, I think, Kate, as you pointed16out, I think NorthStar would have a piece of this,17too. So Scott will probably want to jump in there. 18But as far as the NRC is concerned --.19CHAIR O'CONNOR: Hey, Andrea. I'm sorry;20can I -- everyone has to speak up a little because of21the rain.22MS. KOCK: It's raining. Okay. I'll23speak up. 24As I said, I can -- I can start out and25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 51then turn it over to some of our experts. And I think1part of this can be answered by North -- NorthStar, as2well. 3From the NRC's perspective, the4responsibility for funding is with the licensee. It's5very clear and very straightforward. So for all6regulatory activities, we look to the licensee they7are responsible. So if the license is transferred to8NorthStar, they're responsible for the funding. And9if there's a shortage, they're responsible for making10up that shortage.11Our regulations require that they have12decommissioning financial assurance at all times. As13Mike laid out, we look at the transfer application14from the beginning to make sure there's adequate15funds. But going forward, our regulations simply16state that you have to have adequate funding at all17times. And if there is a gap or shortage, they're18required to make that up. And the responsibility for19that would be NorthStar. 20As far as how they would make that up. I21think that's the piece that NorthStar could help you22understand what provisions or where they would look or23their contingency plan is for that. We simply set the24regulation to say they have to make that funding up.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 52I'll just add a few more points and then1turn it over to others to add on. As far as, you2know, what assurances do we have for decommissioning3financial assurance -- and I think we've touched on a4lot of these already. As Mike mentioned, we have5ongoing oversight through decommissioning. So6annually, we look at how much is left in the fund,7what's their estimate for how much it's going to cost8to complete the decommissioning, and then we look to9see if there's any gap. So it's not as if we look at10it once when the application -- when the transfer11occurs and then not again. 12We also do a thorough review at the13beginning, as we mentioned, and then we do our annual14reviews. The only other thing that I would add is --15I think Bruce mentioned this well. We have had ten16power reactors go into decommissioning and have their17licenses terminated. In all cases, that's been done18safely and funding has been made available. Either19the fund was adequate from the beginning or if there20were shortages during the decommissioning period,21those funding shortages were made up.22And again, how -- how those can be made23up, there's a variety of ways. I'll turn it over to24NorthStar to answer how they would look at that. But25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 53people could have contingency funds. They could have1parent company guarantees. There's a variety of ways2in which those funds could be made up. We don't3dictate how it be done, just that it would be done.4MR. STATE: I guess, I'll just add a few5comments about how NorthStar looks at this. So the --6you know, the front line of defense for us is we know7how much money is in the trust fund today. We can see8it. We can call the bank and they can tell us. And9at inception of this project, the way we've10established our -- our work and the way we pay11ourselves, we are limited to the amount of money we12take out of the trust account by performance of the13work. 14So in our breakdown of this project, we've15got a little over nine hundred work elements. And if16we execute all nine hundreds of those work elements,17the site will be clean and it will be released for18unrestricted use.19So when we broke it down into those work20elements, we assigned a cost to each of them. We21added all that cost up and that cost had to be less22than or equal to the amount of money we had to work23with to do the decommissioning. So our first line of24defense is we simply don't take money out of the trust25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 54fund unless we've actually executed the work that that1money is tied to. 2And with that, you know, assurance that we3don't ever -- it's a performance-based assurance that4we don't ever take more money than work actually5performed, if you -- you know, if you track it all the6way through and we take out exactly the amount we say7we will for each of the work elements, and the work8element gets done, then we'll complete this project9within the amount of funding that we have. And the10certainty of us executing each of these work elements11for that cost is that we will provide a form of surety12or guarantee for performance of each of those work13elements as we do them.14So you know, that's what we view as the15most important way to do a project like this. And16it's, frankly, the way we do every project the company17conducts, nationwide, every day. We work as a fixed18price contractor, doing work like this all the time. 19And we worked to budgets on individual work elements. 20Now, in the event that -- that somehow21there's a bust, and that doesn't work out, we've also22committed one-hundred-twenty-five-million-dollar23performance assurance above and beyond the amount of24money that's in the trust fund. And that will be a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 55guarantee by the company. 1As we conduct this work, we actually will2be taking a percentage of all the funds that we remove3from the trust account and putting them into an4escrow. And that's a cash first line of defense to5support the -- the -- any needed cash obligations that6might be above and beyond the nuclear decommissioning7trust. So you know, it's kind of a two-step process. 8It's a process of limiting cost and then a process of9making additional financial capability available above10and beyond the funds that we know are present today.11CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.12Bill?13MR. JORDAN: Yes; thank you. This is,14likewise, likely to be answered by the Panel, NRC,15Entergy, and NorthStar, and really dovetails to Kate's16question and also to my sincere pleasure to hear that17the site could be available to this community for18other uses much sooner than originally planned. And19I hope that that does come to pass. 20An -- an obstacle to that, in my mind, is21represented at the Connecticut Yankee facility, Yankee22Rowe facility, and the Maine Yankee facility where23there are many more acres of land, and yet, the ISFSI24remains and no development has occurred on any of25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 56those three plots of land. 1So my question is does the NRC have any2practical limitations with a site of about one hundred3twenty to a hundred thirty acres, some of which is4going to be taken up by the electric infrastructure of5the switch yard and also by the ISFSI, of having6another -- some other development on the remaining7plot of land that was released for unrestricted use. 8And two, does NorthStar feel confident9that, unlike the other owners of plants around New10England, they will be able to find a means by which11that land can be put back to productive use?12MR. WATSON: Yeah, this is Bruce Watson. 13I -- I think that the plants that have been14decommissioned -- as I said, that they all have been15decommissioned for unrestricted use. So it's really16up to the owner what they want to do. About a third17of them had additional generation facilities placed on18them, built on them, and -- and back into generating19power because they do have the grid infrastructure20there, they do have a source of cooling water, and21they previously had an environmental impact statement22for an operating nuclear power plant. So about one-23third add generating capacity to the site. 24One-third have chosen not to do anything25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 57with the site, which would include Connecticut Yankee1and a few others. At Maine Yankee, they've chosen to2make part of the land a park. I think they donated3part of the land to a nonprofit organization, I think4dedicated to naturalization of the -- of the land. So5it's an -- it's a mixed bag on what happens with the6property once the license is terminated. 7Granted, the dry storage facility is8there. It is still under a license. We have strict9requirements for that security of that facility. So10yes, some of the land is taken up for that particular11purpose. But from the NRC's view is that the12remaining lands that are not required to be under the13license are available for any -- any -- any14development or unrestricted use that the owner would15have for that. 16So I hope I answered that part of the17question.18CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes? Wait one second19because we're going to let somebody --.20UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Counting our21chickens here --?22CHAIR O'CONNOR: Well, wait one second. 23We got to -- we've got to get the full answer here.24MR. STATE: So you know, the owners of the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 58three facilities you mentioned, I've been -- I haven't1been to Connecticut Yankee site. I've been to Yankee2Rowe. I've been to Maine Yankee. You know, those are3somewhat remote locations, somewhat remote sites. 4And, you know, the ownership structure there is you5still have utility owners or cooperatives, in essence,6multiple parties that own those sites. And I think,7as a result, you know, they're people that operate or8-- or there are cooperatives that were formed to9operate these plants. I'm not sure that any one of10those individual utilities has any specific desire to11do anything with those sites.12We're commercially a very different setup. 13You know, we are not interested in being the long-term14owner and developer of the site after it's clean. 15What we're interested in doing is working with the16local community to find the highest and best use of17the property. 18We've heard suggestions of, you know,19potentially looking at a micro-grid. That could be a20great idea. We've suggested a solar facility might be21an option there. But we're not wedded to any specific22future use, but we are wedded to finding a future use. 23And -- and we will be, I would say, very easy to work24with in terms of positioning the property for its best25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 59potential.1CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you. 2Does anyone on this side --?3SENATOR MACDONALD: I'm surprised we would4be using this time to discuss what to do with a site5that may or may not be cleaned up. And that is6premature. I've been doing this job long enough to7have been to this point, several times, with the NRC. 8And on the original sale of Vermont Yankee to Entergy,9we were given assurances by the NRC that the10decommissioning fund was adequate, that the new11operation would provide benefits to the state of12Vermont, there would be additional revenues to put13into the cleanup. 14And what happened was, at Vermont, the15owners shipped all the profits out of state and left16the decommissioning fund inadequate enough so that17tonight we're here discussing how to clean the place18up.19The second time we arrived at this point20was when the owners of the plant came in and asked to21do an up-rate. And your advisory Panel that preceded22this one recommended in a vote not to do the up-rate23because the decommissioning fund was inadequate24because the NRC assured us that there would be a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 60depository for nuclear waste available if we did an --1an up-rate. And your Nuclear Advisory Panel said that2that would not happen. 3And the NRC gave us assurances that there4would be a place to send the waste, and despite the5recommendation that the assurances were not worth --6the assurances failed to materialize, no additional7funds were required from the owners to be put into8decommissioning to cover the additional waste. That9was the second time we were here.10The third time, Madam Chair, we arrived at11this position was when the owners asked for a license12extension. And the owners had made a commitment to13the State of Vermont to the Legislature, a handshake14and a widely understood agreement that the owners15would not ask to extend the license without the16permission of the State and the Legislature. And when17the owners didn't get permission, the owners went to18court to undo the bargain that they had offered. 19And each time, the owners had slide shows20like the one we had tonight, had pictures in the back21of the room, and touted their expertise, their22professionalism, their ability to deliver on promises.23And the Chair has asked what happens if a24company like NorthStar, a relatively new company with25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 61no deep pockets, sold the plant and fails to complete1the cleanup, who is left holding the bag. And, Madam2Chair, the reason I asked that question was when an3up-rate was being discussed and your VSNAP panel said4don't do the up-rate unless the NRC can tell us what5will happen and who will pay and who will be left6holding the bag if there is no National Nuclear7Depository. 8And those that make these decisions were9persuaded to accept the assurance of the NRC and to10trust the owners that things would turn out all right.11And we are here today because of -- this12is about the fourth time that I have served where13we're given a slideshow, promises, guarantees that14these people are more clever, better accountants, and15more responsible than their predecessors. And they're16asking us to sign off on a recommendation. 17But if this doesn't work, the answer is18the NRC doesn't have a rule for who will be19responsible. The rule is the people who would be20responsible are the people that have no money. Madam21Chair, I say that because when -- when, in the past,22the NRC told us that there will be a nuclear23depository available for the waste by a certain year,24and we said we don't believe you, and they said that's25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 62our rule, there must be, you're not going to get left1holding the bag. And when it became clear that there2was no nuclear depository available, they, the NRC,3changed its rule.4CHAIR O'CONNOR: I don't want to cut you5off, but --.6SENATOR MACDONALD: You would like to talk7about what we're going to do with this plant after8it's been cleaned up?9CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yeah.10SENATOR MACDONALD: Instead of what is the11guarantee that we're going to be -- this is going to12be cleaned up and that the NRC, who writes the rules13we have to obey, writes a rule for this other than14that the people that have no money are responsible.15CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 16I mean I -- I don't know if there's --17you've -- you answered the question when I asked about18who's on the hook. I don't know if you want to add19anything?20MS. KOCK: No, I didn't want to add21anything. I just wanted to clarify one thing22unrelated to the funding issue, which is that the NRC23doesn't -- does not set the policy for when and where24there will be a national depository. We're25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 63responsible for reviewing any application we might get1for a repository, making sure that it's safe, and2issuing a license if we think it's appropriate. But3we do not set the national policy on whether there4will be a repository, where it will be, or when it5will be. That is not something that's within our6control or authority. So I just wanted to make that7one clarification, but nothing else to add. Thank8you.9SENATOR MACDONALD: That's --.10CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.11SENATOR MACDONALD: That's true, Madam12Chair. But they assured us, while they don't set the13policy, that someone else did -- they assured us that14there would be a depository there. They gave us15their assurance. They don't make the policy, but they16gave us the assurance. And when it failed, they made17up a new set of rules to allow a hundred years for --18for getting rid of the waste.19CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.20Chris?21MR. CAMPANY: Chris Campany, Windham22Regional Commission. The Town of Vernon asked the23Windham Regional -- or had initial planning grant to24have the Windham Regional Commission prepare a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 64resilience plan for what would happen when the plant1would eventually close. And this was back in 2012. 2And I just want to see if you can add any3clarity of as far as when the site might be released4with the presence of the ISFSI there? On June 12th,52012, I had a phone conversation with Ronald Bellamy,6Chief Reactor Project Branch of NRC, Region One. And7he said that as long as the ISFSI was there after8decommissioning, that it would be unlikely the site9would be able to be released for reuse. So that was10from -- I think -- I think he's retired now and he11can't be here to explain his logic. 12But I just wondered what you might want to13add or what your position would -- might be now?14MR. WATSON: I can't comment on what the15conversation was with Mr. Bellamy, back then. But any16land that is taken off the license, with the exception17of the license property, which is the dry storage18facility, it will be -- I guess, should say is planned19to be released for unrestricted use, which means it20can be used for anything that the owner or the town or21whatever choose to do, whoever controls the property22rights to that piece of land. 23Yes, the ISFSI will be there until the24Department of Energy removes the fuel. At that time,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 65when the fuel's removed, the -- the actual facility1will be decommissioned. And then the entire piece of2property will be available for, I would believe at3that point, unrestricted use and for development for4whatever purpose the owners would have. 5So, you know, I can't comment on the basis6of the conversation you had with him. But like I7said, at other facilities, the -- the remaining pieces8of land have been -- have been -- added generating9plants and -- and used for other purposes. And some10have chose not to use the property at all for -- just11letting it sit for right now so.12MR. CAMPANY: So I just -- so, Kate, can13I ask just a follow-up? So -- so, I guess what I'm --14so what's the -- like the security perimeter likely to15be around the ISFSI? I mean, how much of the site16would likely be available? 17I'm asking you because -- one of the18reasons, when we went to Connecticut Yankee, one of19the reasons why they moved the spent fuel so far away20from the site was to facilitate redevelopment of that21site. And they did that at a considerable expense to22move that away. I thought that was -- and I thought23at Maine Yankee that was part of the reason, too, for24removing the spent fuel pretty far away, so they could25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 66really -- and of course, those are much larger sites1and then V.Y. So what would you anticipate like this,2the perimeter might be around the ISFSI?3MR. WATSON: I really can't really answer4that because I -- we don't normally look into ISFSIs5too much. But I'm sure that there's a certain amount6of land that's required for the security plan around7it to be under the owner control to make sure that the8people who are providing security and for the facility9have adequate time to respond to any threats. 10I can tell you that the facility at11Connecticut Yankee, the dry storage facility was12purposely moved up on the hill because the original13location had it down in a valley. And they thought14that was a -- not a wise decision for the actual15security of the facility, and that the better place16would be up on the hill so that it was on high land17for -- for security reasons.18So I hope that answers your question to19the best I can -- can do today.20CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. We'd have one more21Panel question. We'll let Jim Matteau.22MR. MATTEAU: Thank you. 23It's actually, two questions, but they're24both very quick and I'll throw them both out there25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 67together. The first one for NorthStar. 1Not -- not knowing the details of the2commitment, I understand the -- the price per3component and everything, and that's -- that's4encouraging. I'm really optimistic about that. But5is there anywhere in there, if you encounter something6significant that you could make a clear case was7reasonably not foreseeable, is there any way for you8to go back and seek an increase allotment for that9component, which it seems to me would, in turn,10jeopardize -- could jeopardize the balance of the11trust fund?12And the second question for the NRC is, if13something like that were to happen or, for whatever14reason, it got to the point that there wasn't enough15money to complete the decom, would it be possible for16the owner to apply to go back -- excuse me -- to go17back into SAFSTOR? That's a one-word answer.18MR. STATE: So the -- the -- the first19issue you raised is if -- if -- I think you're saying20if we find an unknown source of contamination or21something. If -- if we simply execute poorly, we have22no recourse to anyone for anything. If, in fact,23during a certain specified period of time, we find24contamination that was undisclosed as part of the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 68transaction, we've got a level of indemnification from1the seller. That doesn't go on forever. That goes on2for a certain period of time. 3So, you know, it behooves us early on in4this process to make sure we've got the best5characterization we can and determine if there's any6unknown contamination that -- that was not disclosed7to us.8If, in fact, we go through the process and9we find unknown contamination after a certain date,10it's our obligation to remove that. And we have to11remove that to, you know, achieve what the objective12here, which is unrestricted use of the site. 13So, you know, we've done a lot of14facilities like this and we've got a pretty good idea15if there should be or would be certain types of16contamination. These are not hard things to find. We17know what the site was used for. We know, generally,18you know, what kinds of things were at the site. 19I can tell you that large sites that had20large motor pools, a lot of times, are really bad21sites because, you know, back in the day you just22threw out the back door and now it's all over in the23groundwater. 24We know there's been certain events at the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 69site. We think those are pretty well documented. And1we will certainly do a high level of investigation2upon ownership to confirm all of that -- all of the3facts that -- that we've got. But, you know,4generally, we feel like there aren't any of those5really big gotchas out there. But if there are, we do6have a certain ability to protect ourselves, you know,7day one, for those types of things.8MR. SACHS: Uh --.9CHAIR O'CONNOR: Hey, Gary, we're trying10to do our meeting, so let the NRC -- there will be11public comment in a minute. 12MR. SACHS: (Off mic) Can I --13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes -- yes, please do. 14Okay. Please go on, Bruce.15MR. WATSON: Obviously, the NRC's view of16the decommissioning is that the decommissioning has to17be completed in sixty years. So given the fact that18this is the business model that NorthStar is taking,19they're using to -- to actually take the sale of the20property, it's their risk they're taking in doing21their review of the site to ensure that they can meet22the commitments that they're telling us in the -- in23the documents in the -- in the financial information. 24So for many, like previous license25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 70transfers, we would have expected them to do their due1diligence to protect themselves, review the site2history, look at the characterization to ensure that3they -- they have a good assurance that they can clean4up the site within the funds.5Back in 2012, we strengthened our6decommissioning regulations. We actually call it the7Decommissioning Planning Rule. And it required that8the sites do additional groundwater monitoring close9to sites which could produce contamination into the10environment so it would be discovered early. I think11that enhanced the ability to prevent a lot of12underground soil contamination, which has been found13at a few of the sites that were previously14decommissioned. 15So these -- these regulations enable the16owner or the operator at the time, the licensee, to17find contamination and make a determination whether18they need to clean it up now or later.19So the answer is yes, they could go into20a SAFSTOR situation, do -- for -- for whatever reason21they choose to. But as I think that's their choice. 22But in this particular case, they're telling us23they're planning to the clean the site up from a24radiological standpoint by 2026.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 71CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. We have one quick1follow-up. Then we have to move on.2MR. WALKE: Mr. State, I just want to3follow-up quickly on the point about you're going to4do your due diligence post-transfer. We've talked5about phase one complete before transfer of the6environments non-radiological environmental review. 7As the state agency is responsible for the non-8radiological piece, it -- it seems to me that the --9the that I have about the risk associated with the10transfer is related to why wouldn't we want to do that11diligence up front and know that information from the12phase two prior to transfer, so you know what the13gotchas are and we have come -- more comfort into the14financial resources?15MR. WATSON: I'd like to add one more16piece to -- to my previous comment, in that the NRC17regulations require that any incident or -- I'll call18it event that would result in information that would19be important -- in particular, radiological20information that would be important to the21decommissioning of the future of the site be recorded. 2223And so we do have a requirement that if24they had a spill or -- or a contamination that that'd25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 72be well-documented in the record for the site history. 1And so that's one area that could be looked at from a2radiological standpoint.3MR. TWOMEY: At -- at one level, there4have been numerous evaluations of the conditions on5that site. Certainly, the prior owners before Entergy6had an obligation to maintain their compliance with7all the NRC --8MR. SACHS: (Off mic)9MR. TWOMEY: -- all of the requirements10that they had to comply with for the NRC When we --11when Entergy bought the facility in 2002, we did a12comprehensive due diligence prior to that sale. And13then --14MR. SACHS: (Off mic)15CHAIR O'CONNOR: Hey, Gary.16MR. TWOMEY: -- we also did --17CHAIR O'CONNOR: Gary.18MR. TWOMEY: -- we also did a --19MR. SACHS: Could you speak up?20MR. TWOMEY: -- site assessment study in212014.22MR. SACHS: Is there a reason you won't23speak up?24MR. TWOMEY: Is there a reason -- 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 73CHAIR O'CONNOR: Could everybody --?1MR. TWOMEY: -- you're interrupting me?2CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yeah, please don't3interrupt.4MR. SACHS: I can't hear you. There's5nothing to interrupt.6UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: (Off mic)7CHAIR O'CONNOR: Well, we're going to let8him finish the question, so we can move on.9MR. SACHS: (Off mic)10MR. TWOMEY: We did a comprehensive site11assessment study in 2014. And then NorthStar's been12doing their own due diligence as we've been working on13this transaction. 14And I'll let Scott speak to the level of15due diligence they've done.16MR. STATE: It -- it -- I don't want you17to misinterpret what I said before. It's not as if we18haven't done any due diligence or -- or done any level19of evaluation. I was speaking merely to, you know,20post-closing and opening of structures and doing a21very invasive testing that you wouldn't do prior to22closing of a transaction to, you know, get absolute23confirmation of what we believe to be true today. 24But, you know, we've -- we are relying on25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 74past -- past practices and past evaluations and data1that's been generated from prior work on the site. 2And you know, we will continue to do that kind of3work. We've continued to do due diligence. We are4initiating certain work activities, the second half of5this year and all next year, running up to the closing6of the transaction. 7So we're not just sitting idly, hoping8there's nothing there. We are doing, you know, a9substantial amount of work to verify the condition of10the site at closing.11CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 12I think what we're going to do right now13is take a five-minute break. So at seven forty-five,14we're going to take public comment and questions. And15if you want to make a comment or ask a question, there16are signup sheets right over there. So in -- we'll17take five minutes.18(Off the record)19(The meeting resumed.)20CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. Now, what we're21going to do is take comments or questions from the22public. And I just want to remind everybody that the23NRC is here because it's the official public comment24period on the license transfer application that25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 75Entergy and NorthStar has filed. And that, of course,1is about the sale. 2What I'm going to ask is when you come up,3if you could state your name and what town or state4and/or state you are from. It is being recorded by5the NRC. And as Andrea said earlier, you don't -- if6you speak tonight, you do not have to send written7comments to the NRC. But if you choose not to speak8tonight, there is a mechanism that you can go online9on the NRC website and either email a comment in or10you can do a written comment. And those comments are11due by June 23rd.12I also want to remind everyone that while13you may pose a question to the NRC, again I think14Andrea stressed this, is that they are still in the15process of reviewing the license transfer application. 16So they may not have an answer for you because they17haven't finished the review. 18I would also ask that if people can keep19their comments down to two or three minutes, we'd20appreciate it so we can move the meeting along. And21again, I want to remind everyone that this is a22meeting of the Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens23Advisory Panel. And we run by Robert's Rules of Order24and our charter and I just ask everyone to respect25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 76that you are at a Panel meeting and respect all your1fellow commenters or people that are here this2evening.3And I'm going to call people's names in no4particular order, so I don't want anyone to think you5-- I'm playing favorites in any way. And what I'll do6is I'll, maybe, call two names at a time so the next7person knows that it's their -- their shot. 8The first up is going to be Skyler Gould. 9And then second is Brad Ferlin. And again, if you can10say your name and your town and state, so we have it11in the record. Yes?12MR. GOULD: All right. Thank you very13much.14CHAIR O'CONNOR: You may have to talk15louder than usual because of the rain on the --.16MR. GOULD: I'm Skyler Gould of17Brattleboro -- I'm Skyler Gould. I live in18Brattleboro these days. Thanks very much for allowing19us to come here tonight. 20I have a couple of quick questions. Has21the NRC approved the new Holtec dry cask design which22would allow the earlier unloading of fuel beyond --23shorter than the usual five-year cooling off period?24CHAIR O'CONNOR: I think what I want to do25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 77-- I think what I want to do is have you ask all the1questions? 2MR. GOULD: Okay.3CHAIR O'CONNOR: So you could ask all your4questions and then they can answer all at the same5time.6MR. GOULD: And another is -- is there7some reason the comment period has been reduced from8the normal sixty days to thirty days? Twenty or9thirty days, I'm not sure. I think I heard thirty10this evening. 11A more difficult question. On March 29th,12just this year, a judge in the Court of Chancery, of13the state of Delaware -- I have the opinion -- found14that one of the two members of the NorthStar Group15Holdings, of which Scott State is the current C.E.O.16-- current corporate members, I'm quoting here, has17adequately alleged facts that, if true, demonstrate18fraudulent representation, unquote. 19This is a charge by the other member of20NorthStar Group Holdings. So basically there are two21members of NorthStar Group Holdings. One is accusing22the other of fraud. Excuse me. NorthStar23Decommissioning Holdings, the limited liability24corporation incorporated -- incorporated last November25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 78which is seeking to purchase Vermont Yankee from1Entergy is owned by NorthStar Group Services, which is2owned by L.V.I. parent corporation. which is owned by3NorthStar Group Holdings. which is at the heart of4this fraud case, they're seeking over two hundred and5thirteen million dollars in damages. 6Essentially, Scott State and his -- his7member of the NorthStar Group Holdings are accused of8misrepresenting their corporate members' assets and9liabilities to the tune of two hundred and thirteen10million dollars. So my question to the NRC is do the11facts of this case --? 12MR. SACHS: Did you know this?13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Gary --. 14MR. GOULD: Gary, please, give me a break. 15Do the facts of this case concern the16Commission and will the Commission fully consider this17above-mentioned suit and what it may say about the18integrity of the terms of the proposed sale? 19And secondly, is the Commission confident20that should the plaintiff in the above case prevail,21which the judge in the case has concluded is enough of22a possibility to allow the case to go forward, will23the structural integrity of the NorthStar Enterprise24-- the larger NorthStar Enterprise allow the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 79decommissioning of -- of Vermont Yankee to be1completed according to regulatory requirements? Thank2you.3MR. WATSON: Yes, I'll try and answer the4questions in order. First of all, the Holtec change,5I think that's still under technical review.6MR. GOULD: So is it conceivable, if7that's not approved, that that will delay --?8MR. WATSON: Well, it isn't approved yet,9nor is it denied. So it's still under review. Okay?10The requirement for a public period for a11license transfer is thirty days in the regulations. 12So that's what's -- that what's published in the13Federal Registry so.14MR. GOULD: Excuse me. I understand. It15was never sixty days?16MR. WATSON: No; it's thirty days.17MR. GOULD: Excuse me. I see.18MR. WATSON: And in response to the -- I19guess, the lawsuit you're -- yeah, we have no real20comment on it. That is not part of our review. The21only comment I would have as a person that is an22accusation of -- of wrongdoing is not -- not an23assessment of guilt until the court decides it. So24it's not part of our review at all.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 80MR. GOULD: Thank you.1CHAIR O'CONNOR: And I do want to say one2thing that we as a -- we as a Panel can request an3extension on public comment period if we needed to4because we've done that in the past. So that is an5option.6MR. FERLIN: Yeah. Good evening. My name7is Brad Ferlin. I live in Fairfax, Vermont, born in8Burlington, Vermont. I serve as President of the9Vermont Energy Partnership. I want to thank Kate for10hosting this meeting, and NDCAP. We appreciate that. 11And we welcome the NRC.12We've testified before you a number of13times over the years and welcome you back to Vermont.14The Vermont Energy Partnership was formed15in 2005, largely through the foresight of Governor16Thomas Salmon. We're comprised of a diverse group of17business, labor, and community leaders. And over the18years, the Vermont Energy Partnership was a strong19advocate for Vermont Yankee as an economic engine, a20job provider for not only Windham County, but for the21State of Vermont, supplying low cost power. And we22were in support of that.23One of the things we heard over the years24in debate was if Vermont Yankee closed, that an25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 81accelerated decommissioning would be desired. And lo1and behold, with NorthStar here, this -- this promise2or this desire can actually be met. So -- and to make3the site available for future economic uses. So we4view this new opportunity of having Vermont Yankee5acquired by NorthStar and have them put in place this6accelerated and safe decommissioning process as great7news for Vermont. 8We've had the opportunity to meet with9NorthStar officials on a number of occasions and hear10explanations of how they plan to operate in Vermont11and decommission Vermont Yankee. We appreciate the12fact that it's going to provide, in segments, jobs and13economic stimulus for -- for the region and for the14state. 15And so for the NRC we hope that NorthStar16is properly vetted by this process in a fair,17reasonable, and timely manner -- timely manner, and18that a green light is given to the sale and it signals19to all an economic boost to Windham County and that20you can do business in Vermont. 21So we thank you.22CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you very23much. 24And I'm so sorry if I mispronounce25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 82people's names. Meredith Angwin and then Robert1Stewart?2MS. ANGWIN: Hello; my name is Meredith3Angwin and I live in -- I live in Wilder, Vermont. 4And I have blogged for many years at Yes Vermont5Yankee in case people are wondering what side of the6fence I'm on.7I would like to just make a comment about8the decommissioning. And that is that while the plant9was still running and Governor Shumlin -- at that10point he was governor, right -- was very much against11it. And he said, at one point in a press conference,12that if Vermont Yankee was decommissioned, it would be13a huge jobs bonus for this area. It would be fabulous14and it wouldn't actually lay people off because it15would take the plant a couple years to cool down and16people would still be employed. He -- the polite way17to describe this sort of thing is that he pulled this18stuff out of the air. That's the polite way.19At any rate, I was very interested in his20comments and I tried to figure out what actually21happened in decommissioning. And then during the22course of this, I interviewed a lot of people at three23Yankees, at Energy Solutions, I read articles from24EPRI. I read articles from all over the place. I25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 83used to work in the nuclear industry, so I can figure1some of these things out.2And what I found out was that a lot of the3data that I would've liked to find, but was really4very wrapped up in -- in the economics of the5different companies doing the decommissioning and was6proprietary. So the idea that this particular case,7there was proprietary economic data and that's so --8so shocking to some people, it's just standard. I9mean, I wish it wasn't -- sometimes it wasn't10standard. 11For example, I would have -- I wanted to12know what percentage of the decommissioning money13actually went to truck drivers and to transport, as14opposed to people working on the site. This is15proprietary data. I was told that by everybody and I16think it's true and I think companies have a right to17proprietary data. I -- my -- my point isn't that we18should look more or look harder or look this or look19that. 20My point is that decommissioning and many21other processes like this do have propriety economic22data. This is not the first time. As I say, I was23looking all over the country for this kind of data. 24And it kept coming up proprietary because that's how25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 84it's handled.1CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you. 2I have Robert Stewart and then Patty3O'Donnell.4MR. STEWART: Yes, I'm Robert Stewart,5although I go by Jake. And I live in Brookfield,6Vermont. I'm a professional engineer and I've been7concerned about radioactivity ever since the plant8started operation. 9And I'm particularly concerned now, among10other things, but about the rubblization. If that11becomes a possibility, I think that's a big mistake to12leave radioactive material on-site. Even if it's13diluted with other less radioactive material to dilute14it, I think it all should be removed. 15The -- you know, diluting it is really not16a solution. And the radioactive isotopes will17migrate. They will get into the Connecticut River and18already are. And the -- they also will get into the19aquifer. They cannot be stopped. So I think the less20material that's radioactive on-site, the better. So21I hope that all of that material will be, as much as22possible, can be removed. Thank You.23CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 24We'll have, after Patty, Janet Rasmussen.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 85MS. O'DONNELL: Good evening. Thank you1so much for coming here tonight and giving us the2opportunity to speak to you. As Kate said, my name is3Patty O'Donnell. I have -- I come from the Town of4Vernon and I have over twenty years of experience of5representing the Town of Vernon in one way or another. 6I've served on the school board, the select board, and7I've been a state representative for twelve years. 8And I have to say coming from Vernon is9not always an easy thing. It's not always easy to be10the town with the nuclear power plant, although we11have felt for years that we certainly helped the state12out and are reaching out in many, many ways.13Closing Vermont Yankee has been a very,14very difficult thing for my town. It's really hard15for a town of twenty-one hundred people to try to16figure out how do you go on. The most important17people in this whole process, in this whole18conversation, the ones who are going to benefit or19hurt the most by the decisions that are made here, is20the Town of Vernon. It's our community. We've21struggled through an awful lot and it's time to allow22us to go on to our future. And going on to that23future is decommissioning that plant.24As a legislator, I heard, for over twenty25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 86years, we want that plant decommissioned, we want that1plant closed. Well, they got their way; the plant is2closed. Now, we want our way. We want a viable,3fair, honest looking into the proposal. If everything4works out well, we want the plant decommissioned as5fast as we can. You will hear after, peers of mine in6Vernon will tell you about our plans for the future7and how we've been working very hard in our planning8commission to reinvent ourselves, but nothing can be9done until the plant is gone.10We have already developed or started to11develop a relationship with -- with Scott. We had a12wonderful relationship with Vermont Yankee. I know we13will continue our relationship with NorthStar. And14they're already working with us. But please, give us15a chance for a future. We certainly have given our16state enough in the last forty-two years.17MS. RASMUSSEN: Janet Rasmussen, a18resident of Vernon and a member of the Vernon Planning19Commission. I think Patty said everything far more20elegantly than I could.21FROM THE AUDIENCE: No one can hear you,22ma'am.23MS. RASMUSSEN: I'm Janet Rasmussen. I'm24a resident of Vernon and also a member of the Planning25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 87Commission. I think Patty O'Donnell said what I would1like to say a lot more elegantly than I could. 2But what I really want to underscore is we3live in Vernon. We work in Vernon. Our economic4future is dependent on this plant being -- plant being5decommissioned as quickly as possible, but also as6safely as possible. 7No one has a seat closer at the table than8we should, because we live there. We are -- the9Planning Commission has become intervenors in the10process. We are -- we will read everything that we11can. We have had permission from the select board to12hire experts, if we can, to help us through the13process.14We're encouraged about the process thus15far and we hope that we are allowed to have a fair16hearing. And please know no one wants this to happen17more than us, economically and safely. Thank you.18CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 19Howard Shaffer and then Madeline Arms? 20And because it's raining, you do have to yell a little21bit louder into the microphone. 22Howard's passing. So does Maddie want to23go next? And next up is going to be Lissa Weinmann.24MS. ARMS: Madeline Arms, Town of Vernon25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 88resident and also member of the Planning Commission. 1Thank you very, very much for coming here, and2listening to everyone, and taking all of our opinions3and our hopes and our dreams into your consideration.4I certainly would like to add my support5to what Patty and Janet have said. This has been a6topic of much discussion in the Planning Commission7and throughout the Town of Vernon. And I sincerely8believe that it will not be just the Town of Vernon9that benefits from this revitalization. It's going to10spread to the surrounding towns and to actually the11whole state of Vermont, as well. Thank you very much.12CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 13Lissa?14MS. WEINMANN: Hi; I'm Lissa Weinmann. 15I'm a resident of Brattleboro and, again, I, too,16appreciate you coming here tonight to hear views from17our community.18I would say that in my view the Town of19Brattleboro is really the host town for the reactor. 20Vernon is -- is the town where it is, but it's really21the Town of Brattleboro that -- that absorbs a lot of22the -- the emergency preparedness and other things23that have to do with the plant really emanate from24Brattleboro. So I would say that, in my view,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 89Brattleboro is the town of record here, more than1Vernon.2But I have a couple of things I just want3to say, quickly, which is I think that in this process4really when there is a license transfer that a new5P.S.D.A.R. should be completed. I think it's a new6entity and really demands that a new P.S.D.A.R. be put7forth and not just a revised one. 8I would also say that I have a lot of9issues with the cost of the decommissioning. Entergy10thought it was going to be one point two billion. Our11Public Service Department did an independent12assessment and they thought it would be along the13lines of two billion to -- to decommission the14reactor. So those numbers are so wildly different,15it's hard for the public to really reconcile what is16real here. 17I know that the overhead is going to come18down and there's a lot of reasons why it's lower, but19that's a lot lower. And that calls into question the20credibility of the numbers in my mind.21I just want to say also that I do believe22that as long as the spent fuel is in the pool and the23whole process of moving the fuel to dry fuel storage24means that we should have an adequate level of25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 90emergency planning that the NRC has reduced. And I1understand that decision's been made, but I take issue2with that and I think it was a foolish decision.3I'd also like to -- to just on record say4that I think that allowing Entergy to use the5decommissioning fund in ways that it has put forth was6not also something that the community supported. And7I took issue with that, the NRC's decision with that8as well. 9I would like -- I know that you have an10environmental impact study that was generically done11for this site but --. 12CHAIR O'CONNOR: Lissa, I don't want to13rush you, but I'm going to rush you.14MS. WEINMANN: Okay. All right. Well,15two more points. One is that are any of the other16reactor sites have a school at the front door? 17Because I think that the presence of school children18who we know children are much more susceptible to19radio -- radiation. I mean, they -- they absorb it20much differently than adults do. What are the21measures that are going to be taken for the very22unique circumstance that this plant is in, in having23a school at its doorstep? I don't think that's the24case with any other plants anywhere.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 91And then finally, I would just say that I1am against the rubblization. It flies in the face of2what Entergy had agreed to do. And while it may be3acceptable for the NRC and Federal standards it's not4what Entergy had promised in -- in its agreement with5the state. 6I still have a lot of other things, but7I'll put them in my written comments. And again, I8appreciate your review. 9CHAIR O'CONNOR: All right. Thank you. 10Next up is going to be Bill Sayre and then11Dan Jeffries.12MR. SAYRE: My name is Bill Sayre. I'm an13economist from Bristol. My family has a lumber14manufacture and as such -- is that better -- and as15such, I'm also representing Associated Industries of16Vermont, which is the trade association for Vermont17manufacturers. I want to thank you for making the18trip up to Vermont to hear what we have to say and19appreciate the opportunity to speak to you all.20I may take a different view. I will take21a different view than some who will speak to you22tonight. I want to start by expressing my -- my23association and my company's gratitude to Vermont24Yankee and Entergy Corporation for all the years of25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 92reliable, affordable, low-carbon energy that they1provided to the manufacturers of Vermont. We2appreciate it very greatly.3And we now appreciate the agreement that4they've reached with NorthStar to transition into a5decommissioning process that will be more rapid and6just as safe and just as high quality. We believe7this is good for Windham County and it's good for8Vermont. It secures the important safety and health9standards that we all want to see, keeps the economy10going, and gets the process completed in a more timely11fashion. 12Thank you very much.13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 14After Dan Jeffries, it will be Bob15Spencer.16MR. JEFFRIES: Good evening. Thank you17NRC for making the trip up here. We were kind of18joking that down in the NRC, somebody must have asked19for volunteers to come up to Vermont. But it looks20like they got some players. Appreciate your being21here.22I got a question. This is something I23probably knew at one time, but have forgotten, and24there's a reason for asking it. The question is who25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 93owns these spent fuel, the dry casks, after the1decommissioning is complete? One of the reasons2that's on my mind is it seems to me that it would be3appropriate for the Republican Congress to pass a law4forcing the ownership of those dry casks onto the5Department of Energy. 6The Federal Government said they would7take this spent fuel way back in the '60s when they8initially allowed the industry to start building the9nuclear power plant. So I think they should take it10by law and not leave that open to argument.11Number two question is -- is NorthStar12publicly held. And if so, how's business? And the13reason I ask that question is that I'm an Entergy14retiree and when I was looking at my retirement plans,15I was looking at how secure is this Entergy retirement16check I'm going to be getting. Entergy is a large17utility, down south. Regardless of what might have18happened with any of their nuclear power plants up19here, I always felt that they were a very secure20company and that my check was highly reliable. 21If NorthStar is publicly traded and can22comment on their -- you know, how things are going23business-wise, I would expect that if they needed to24bring more money to the table for the next, you know,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 94five years, past 2026, ten years past, if the cash1flow is there, I consider the finances secure. 2May not do much for the stockholders if,3in fact, it's publicly -- publicly held, but if4they've got the cash flow, it should come to Vermont5Yankee if necessary.6And the other thing that's on my mind --7by the way, I forgot to comment, I'm a resident of8Brattleboro. So one thing I've noticed in all the9discussion is -- and I can't quite get a grip on it --10is what's so important about this one hundred acres11down here in Vernon. If you take a ride up and down12the river, there's a lot of undeveloped land up and13down the river. Why is this one hundred acres so14extremely important? It seems like this real estate's15value is extremely exaggerated in my mind. And to16that end, I'm comfortable with the four -- four-foot17reclamation. And I'm also comfortable with the18rubblization as proposed. Thank you.19CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 20Again, it's Bob Spencer and then Peggy21Farabaugh is next.22MR. SPENCER: Good evening and thank you23to the NRC. Bob Spencer, I'm Chair of the Vernon24Planning Economic Development Commission. We've heard25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 95from three of our members already. We also have two1other members here, Jeff Dunkley and also Martin2Langeveld, who is on the Panel. 3So we are the -- the board that's charged4with looking at future use of this site. And we5recently prepared an op-ed piece that was put into the6local papers. I was just going to hit a couple7highlights of that.8That basically what we're looking at is a9Reenergize Vernon campaign. We like the idea that10some of the other decommissioned sites have hosted11other -- energy generating facilities. We are looking12at such things as microgrid battery storage,13hydroelectric because of the existing TransCanada, now14ArcLight facility, possibly solar, and the spinoff15businesses such as cloud storage and other high energy16intensive using -- uses.17We'd also like to point out the over one-18hundred-year history of Vernon in hosting energy19production, starting with the Vernon hydroelectric dam20in the early 1900s and then transitioning into the21nuclear power plant. So we feel we have a history and22a mission, sort of, to keep hosting this sort of23technology that benefits, really, three states and24hundreds of thousands of people.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 96The -- this next chapter that we're1talking about, we're -- we're working through a number2of municipal planning projects with the Windham3Regional Commission to update our town plan to look at4hosting and facilitating development of such5facilities. We also are amending our plan to make it6-- give it something that the state has a new7regulation that would give us a substantial deference8in supporting or opposing energy facilities. 9So we're doing a lot that we feel will10help facilitate redevelopment of this site. And we11really are -- as an intervenor, as Janet said, we'll12be commenting formally on this process and are13cautiously optimistic that this deal will happen.14So thank you everyone for your -- your15professional review and the due diligence from the16private entities, too.17CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you. 18After Peggy, it's going to be Betsy19Williams and then Josh Unruh.20MS. FARABAUGH: Thank you, Kate and Panel21for the opportunity to speak. 22My name is Peggy Farabaugh. I'm from23Vernon. I have lived there for twenty years. My24husband was laid off from Entergy, so I'm coming from25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 97a point where a lot of people are -- in Vernon are1coming from. We've suffered a lot from the shutdown2of the plant. But the community has come together in3an amazing way to rebirth the town. 4And I've heard a lot of opinions tonight5about how to do that, but none of them speak to me6about the difference between the environmental health7and safety of a plant that's six years versus sixty8years. So I'd just encourage you on behalf of the9folks who I know in Vernon to make it sooner than10later.11And in sixty years, all of us are going to12dead. Right? And so in six years, this is something13that could really help like my children and -- and the14children of other people from Vernon who are in this15room. So if there is no compelling safety16environment, health, or financial reasons, please help17us get this done in six years, instead of sixty. 18Thank you.19CHAIR O'CONNOR: We have Betsy and then20Josh Unruh.21MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. My thoughts are a22little bit scattered. I'll try to keep it focused. 23We've had a long history of interacting24with various representatives from the NRC in the past. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 98And as somebody said earlier, I commend -- I don't1know which raffle you won to come up here. They2haven't always been very pleasant interactions in the3past.4I think one thing that's different this5time is that in the past, we were debating the6continued operation of a plant and now what we're7talking about is how do we safely and efficiently and8cost effectively decommission it and decontaminate it. 9We have a common goal. I think I've -- I10think -- I guess I don't know, but I would assume that11pretty much everybody in this room wants the same12thing, which is we want that site to be cleaned up and13cleaned up to the highest possible level it can, and14for that not to become a burden financially on anyone15other than the owners of this -- of the plant.16I think what we do debate is how we'll get17there and how we'll get there in a way that we all can18trust. Trust is a big issue here. We have lots and19lots of reasons not to trust this company, and lots20and lots of reasons not to trust the NRC, quite21frankly. 22We're talking about the most dangerous23substance known to humankind that we are dealing with. 24I can appreciate that NorthStar has deconstructed many25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 99sites much larger and more involved than Vermont1Yankee. But most of them were not dealing with the2most dangerous substances known to humankind.3We're talking about many of those4substances leaving a legacy for up to a thousand5generations. A thousand generations. That's our6legacy. So what we do here in these next few years is7really, really, really important and it cannot be8taken lightly. 9And I have been frustrated by decisions by10the NRC in the past. For example, I do not believe11that the Holtec decision, that that was the cask to12use on the site, was the best decision. I don't13believe that the NRC is committed to holding the --14whichever company is involved in this process -- to15the very highest possible standard known to humankind16today. That's what they should be held to. Not to17what -- the last time I was at the NRC hearing, I was18told by an NRC representative that the Holtec casks19were adequate. I'm not looking for adequate. 20I don't think the people of Vernon or21Brattleboro or anywhere in this Tri-State region are22looking for adequate. They are looking for the23highest possible standard that we know of. And that's24what I would like the NRC to be looking for, as well. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 100And I would like to feel assured that that is what the1NRC is going to be holding whichever company2accountable to.3It concerns me greatly, as it does many4others in this room, that my understanding and I --5I'm not completely sure of this, but my understanding6is that most, if not all, of the decommissionings that7have happened to date have had cost overruns. Almost8all of them, if not all of them. While it would be9wonderful if that did not happen here, I think that we10clearly have to have an absolutely assured plan of11what happens should that happen. 12And a company that has gone belly up,13whether or not they're the owners, does not give me14assurance of then who's going to bear the burden of15this very dangerous legacy.16CHAIR O'CONNOR: Betsy --.17MS. WILLIAMS: And I'm about to wind up,18Kate. 19CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay.20MS. WILLIAMS: So it also concerns me that21what we're talking about here are two things that I22think are in real competition with each other, which23is we're trying to keep things to a certain cost which24makes sense, but we're also trying to do it at the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 101most -- the highest possible standard of safety that1we know of, which usually also translates to being a2more expensive process. 3The better casks are more expensive. The4process for handling the materials in the most careful5way is more expensive. And those two things are in6direct opposition to each other. And that is the very7difficult path that we are navigating. Thank you.8CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 9Josh -- is Josh Unruh -- Josh Unruh and10then Haley Pero. 11And I just want to remind people if you12could say your name and where you're from and keep13your comments to about two minutes, that would be much14appreciated.15MR. UNRUH: I can do that. I'm Josh16Unruh, Select Board Chair in Vernon. I'd like to17thank everybody for their time this evening.18To reiterate what has been said, there is19no one with a stronger stake in the sale in the site's20safe decommissioning than the Town of Vernon. I stand21in support of the sale of Vermont Yankee to NorthStar. 22I've had the opportunity to meet with the NorthStar23Executives regarding their purchase and their24potential new partnership with the Town of Vernon. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 102Through these conversations, my personal1questions and concerns have been put to rest. Among2many -- among many things over the last several months3we've heard, and we've also heard it tonight, is4concerns about the school across the street from5Vermont Yankee. The funny thing is that none of these6people have children at Vernon Elementary School. I7do. I have three little girls at Vernon Elementary8School. 9I'm no scientist. I'm no demolition10expert. So I put my trust in the people that deal in11this industry day in and day out that will govern the12sale and demolition. That's the NRC and NorthStar. 13To get this land back to a usable state safely is14paramount for Vernon and Southern Vermont for economic15development. To not allow this sale is further16cutting the Town of Vernon and Southern Vermont off at17its knees. Thank you.18CHAIR O'CONNOR: After Haley, we're going19to have Ann Darling and then Leo Schiff.20MS. PERO: Thank you for the opportunity21to say a few words. My name is Haley Pero and I work22in Senator Bernie Sanders' office. Tonight, I'm23joined by my colleagues, Tom Berry in Senator Leahy's24office, and George Twigg in Congressman Welch's25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 103office.1On behalf of the delegation, we'd like to2thank the NRC for making the trip to Vermont to hear3directly from Vermonters. We think that's very4important. And we'd also like to thank the Panel for5making this meeting possible and also being a conduit6for public information. 7The delegation has long believed that8public engagement is really critical to this process,9so it's terrific to see so many members of the public10here tonight.11As many of you may know, Bernie has12introduced legislation a few years ago to make sure13that local and state input is a meaningful and formal14part of the decommissioning process, particularly on15the P.S.D.A.R. Bernie will soon be reintroducing this16bill and including an opportunity for the public to17give input on license transfers, so then situations18like we find ourselves, the public will still have a19voice. Thank you.20CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Haley. And21again, thanks to the Congressional delegation. They22were very helpful in getting the NRC to come here this23evening. 24Ann?25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 104MS. DARLING: Hi; I'm Ann Darling. I live1in East Hampton, Massachusetts, which is down the2river. And -- but for until a few years ago, I was a3thirty-five-year resident of this area. And I4consider myself -- this is my home. So I guess, you5know, we're -- the Vermont Yankee site, it's in the6corner of Vermont, but it's right close to7Massachusetts and New Hampshire. 8So the State has jurisdiction -- the State9of Vermont has jurisdiction over the non-radiological10aspects of decommissioning, the residents all over11this area of all different states, not just Vermont,12will kind of bear the brunt or the -- feel the impact13of the operation, the shutdown, the decommissioning,14all of that.15So my -- I'm asking the NRC what your16commitment is to communicating with all of these17parties and coordinating, particularly, with the State18of Vermont? But all of us, as moving forward, it's19kind of germane to what you were just saying. We have20-- these are our lives. So we want you to talk to us. 21I did ask a question.22CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yeah. Would you folks23like to respond?24MS. KOCK: I keep forgetting the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 105microphone. So sorry. I'll try and -- and, Kate,1I'll try and be brief. 2To answer your question about what our3commitment is on being transparent and communicating,4transparency is another one of the NRC's cornerstones. 5I don't know how else to say it more clearly. I can6tell you as a -- the Deputy Director in the7decommissioning division, it's extremely important to8me as well. It's why we're here. It's why we have9four of us sitting up here today. And so you do have10our commitment. It is part of what's -- extremely11important to us. Everything we do should be12transparent. 13And it is -- I don't know if nice is the14right way to put it, but it is nice and striking to me15to sit here and listen to concerns, questions,16comments, no matter what side of the issue that you're17on, but it's extremely important to me and I'm happy18to be here.19MS. DARLING. Thank you. 20I just want to say that, like my friend21Betsy, many, many times we've sat with the NRC We22haven't -- some of us have not felt that -- that we23were more important than the industry -- the nuclear24industry. And so I -- you're going to run into that25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 106and we don't just want transparency. We want you to1really listen and take our opinions into2consideration. We want our -- what we say to have an3impact. And that means people of Vernon and everybody4else that lives here. We want to -- we want you to5listen and do something about what we think. Thank6you.7CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Ann. 8After Leo, it's going to be Guy Page and9then Bob Leach.10MR. SCHIFF: Hi there. My name's Leo11Schiff. I live in Brattleboro. And I really12appreciate the representatives of the NRC coming. I13understand that this might be your last trip ever to14Brattleboro. And because of that, I've got a question15for you that is a little bit tangential to the sale of16the property.17First, I want to locate myself as firmly18against nuclear weapons and nuclear power, and in19favor of long-term onsite stewardship of the dry casks20in Vernon. What I'd like to ask you is what makes you21so sure that it would be safe to transport the highest22level nuclear waste and other medium or low level23nuclear waste along our decaying rail lines and with24the possible threats of terrorism?25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 107CHAIR O'CONNOR: Do you have any other1questions, Leo?2MR. SCHIFF: No, but I'd love to get an3answer.4CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. Great. Thank you.5MR. WATSON: Your question is pertaining6to the safe transportation of radioactive materials. 7I can assure you that it's done almost every day in8this country, whether it's in the commercial business9or in the Defense Department. There's strict10requirements on the condition of the rails, the roads,11et cetera, on which those materials would be12transported and -- and significant security13requirements, especially for the transportation of14spent fuel. 15So I can tell you it's done safely and16frequently in this country all the time, may not ever17-- be every day. I've personally been involved in a18number of them. And the lengths that are taken for19the security in the routing and the safety of the20packages and the transportation are extensive. Thank21you.22MR. PAGE: Guy Page, Berlin, Vermont,23Vermont Energy Partnership. So welcome back to24Vermont. Last time you were here I think the room is25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 108about forty-five degrees, if I remember correctly. 1And just so you know, tonight the last leaves at ten2with all the rain. 3So anyway, as I think Mr. Twomey pointed4out, the decommissioning trust fund is five hundred5and seventy-two million. The expenses of the6NorthStar plan, as I understand it, about four hundred7and ninety-eight million. So that's about a seventy-8four-million-dollar surplus. That's pretty good. 9Additional cost overrun, risk mitigation, you've got10some guaranteed fixed payments and bonding. Team11performance bonds, team contractual commitments, and12one hundred and twenty-five million dollars support13agreement, basically an insurance policy.14And, you know, you guys are going to be15doing the deep dive on -- you know, on the -- the16ability of the company to -- to -- you know, have the17financial wherewithal on the technical skill and all18that. But service, that seems like that's a good19prudent plan.20The other thing is, you know, we've really21got to look at NorthStar's past and their future. 22They -- they've decommissioned hundreds of power23facilities. You know, we've seen all these. And as24I've been Googling them, I haven't found any accounts25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 109of, you know, oh, boy they really messed up this one. 1I haven't found any those. Okay? It seems that2they've got a pretty good record. Extensive3experience in nuclear decommissioning.4And -- and really in terms of failing, the5questions were asked were what happens if you find6something you didn't think you're going to find, and7I thought Mr. State's answer was a good one. But8really you don't become a world leader by failing to9see and deal with the unforeseen. That's just a10characteristic of -- of a business successes. You11know how to deal with these things. So I -- my sense12is that that they do. 13And -- and a big question I think you14really need to ask is, okay, what's the alternative. 15The alternative is sixty years SAFSTOR. As Peggy16said, you know, we're all dead by the time this thing17is done.18So I -- I know you're going to do due19diligence on this. And I know the public service work20is going to do due diligence. And that's all very21good. That's all very necessary but I just hope the22take on this is we want to get to yes. Okay? Because23it's good for the community. It's even good for the24environment. And I just hope it gets done. Thank25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 110you.1CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Guy. 2I just want to assure everybody if you3signed up to speak, you will get to speak. So don't4-- don't worry about that. 5After Bob Leach, we're going to have Paul6Blanch.7MR. LEACH: Good evening -- evening. My8name is Bob Leach. I'm a Brattleboro resident and I9strongly support the transfer of the license and the10sale of Vermont Yankee to NorthStar. 11I'm a Vermont Yankee retiree. For many12years, I was the R.P.M., Radiation Protection Manager. 13I was also certified a reactor operator, a senior14reactor operator. I'm a plank owner. For those who15don't know the Navy terminology, it's anybody that was16there when they commissioned it. I was there when it17was still a hole in the ground. 18I looked into NorthStar and the team19that's working on this project with NorthStar, W.S.C.20and Areva. Areva is an international company. 21They've been building power plants -- nuclear power22plants around the world for as long as I can remember. 23They're a very respectable company. They have an24outstanding reputation in the nuclear industry. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 111Excuse me. 1W.S.C. is an operator of the radioactive2waste disposal site down in Texas. Vermont Yankee --3or Vermont and Texas are the compact folks that4established that particular site. W.S.C.S. operates5that facility and they do it in a safe and6professional manner. It will be an extremely valuable7asset in the process of preparing, scheduling, and8shipping the huge amount of radioactive waste which is9going to be leaving Vermont Yankee.10NorthStar has reputation for11decommissioning non-nuclear power plants for years. 12They were used as a major subcontractor in one of the13Midwest power plants. And everything I heard from14that, they've been doing an outstanding job. 15They did operate and successfully16decontaminate a nuclear facility that was not a power17plant. They did some work of Vermont Yankee,18recently. It was potentially the removal of the north19warehouse. Some of you are aware of that building. 20That was the first building at Vermont Yankee that21received any radioactive waste, radioactive material,22and it was used to store radioactive material right up23until it was -- was decommissioned. 24They brought in a professional crew,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 112relatively small crew. They brought in the right1equipment and they completed the job on schedule and2on budget. NorthStar and their partners are very3capable, knowledgeable, and they've got extensive4experience in this kind of job.5CHAIR O'CONNOR: Bob, I'm going to have to6move you along.7MR. LEACH: Okay.8CHAIR O'CONNOR: I won't gong you or9anything like that but.10MR. LEACH: Okay. Sorry. 11Listen, we're just saying they've got the12expertise and the ability and I strongly support13giving them the chance to do it.14I would like to ask one question to the15NRC. I understand the State of Vermont is trying to16become or looking into becoming an agreement state. 17I think I know the answer, but if they do become an18agreement state, would they -- I know that the NRC19regulates power plants, but decommissioning is20slightly different. And would Vermont be obligated in21any way if they become an agreement state? That's a22yes or no question.23MR. WATSON: The answer is no.24MR. LEACH: Thank you.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 113MR. WATSON: Part 50 licenses are the1responsibility of the NRC to regulate.2CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. After Paul Blanch,3we're going to have Kyle Landis-Marinello and then4Clay Turnbull.5MR. BLANCH: Good evening. Thank you,6Members of the Panel and Madam Chairman. 7My name is Paul Blanch. I reside in West8Hartford, Connecticut, about seventy miles south of9the plant. I'm a -- I'm going to cut my speech, in10the interest of time, a little bit short. But I have11passed out copies to members of the Panel and also to12Andrea of the NRC. So I'm going to cut out the major13part of it, as Mark MacDonald so eloquently described14my concerns.15I'm a professional engineer with more than16fifty years of nuclear safety experience and17regulatory experience. I've worked at Maine Yankee18during the decommissioning, at Connecticut Yankee19during the decommissioning, and I sat on a similar20panel overseeing the decommissioning of Millstone Unit21One. So I have quite a bit of experience in22regulatory issues and a limited amount of experience23in decommissioning.24But I was going through the regulations25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 114and it was just briefly mentioned in one of the NRC1slides, but no one seems to have amplified on it --2and I have a couple extra copies. And that's 103C.F.R. 50.75. So I would like the Panel to review4that. It has to do with financial stability of the5licensee and guarantee of -- decommissioning funds. 6So following up from Mark's dialogue, I'd7like to make some recommendations to the Panel that8Vermont must consider the requirements of some type9of, quote, surety method insurance or other guaranteed10method, close quote, as required by 10 C.F.R. 50.75 as11a condition for transfer of the Vermont Yankee12license.13Vermont's attorneys and the Panel must14determine the amount of the surety bond required to15assure Vermont is financially protected. Typical16amounts for performance-type bonds are equal to the17fix contract amount. However, this particular job is18not a typical contract. Vermont's attorneys must19review the license transfer and regulations of 50.7520to assure the financial protection should NorthStar21fail to perform.22Vermont must oppose the license until it23is satisfied and it is protected from non-performance24or bankruptcy in accordance with the requirements of25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 11550.75. 1A couple of statements were made by Scott2about indemnification. If there is indemnification or3bonding, certainly that kind of statement needs to be4in writing and checked out. 5And the other thing that somewhat bothered6me by some of NorthStar's statements were the amount7of contamination they have removed from various sites. 8And I don't disagree they have removed contamination,9but nuclear contamination is not the same as lead,10asbestos, P.C.B.s. It has its own characteristics. 11And they need to have that expertise, that power plant12expertise on board to assure a safe decommissioning.13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Paul.14MR. BLANCH: Thank you very much.15CHAIR O'CONNOR: Kyle Landis-Marinello and16then Clay Turnbull.17MR. LANDIS-MARINELLO: I'm Kyle Landis-18Marinello. I'm an Assistant Attorney General for the19State of Vermont. Our office is looking at this20transaction, closely. This is a matter that the21Attorney General was briefed on, on day one when he --22when he took office. 23The Attorney General's office is24participating in the proceeding at the Public Service25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 116Board, along with the Agency of Natural Resources and1the Public Service Department, and with some2consultation with the Department of Health, as well. 3We plan to participate in the proceeding at the NRC,4along with all of those agencies.5Generally, we want this site cleaned up6quickly, and the transaction looks good for that7reason. But this transaction needs to be fully8vetted. We need to ensure, one, the site is going to9be fully cleaned up, and two, that the cost of that10cleanup do not fall on Vermonters. 11A full vetting requires more information. 12For instance, there's a line item in the new13decommissioning plan of two hundred twenty-three14million dollars for decontamination and dismantlement. 15That's very different from the line-by-line breakdown16that was provided in the original decommissioning cost17estimate.18A second example, the spent fuel costs for19this transfer assume that the Department of Energy20will pick up all of the fuel by 2052. There's no21guarantee that will happen. If it doesn't happen,22there could be massive costs, particularly if we reach23the one-hundred-year mark where dry casks would24possibly need to be repackaged. And even if the pick-25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 117up occurs by 2052, there's a chance that the1Department of Energy is going to require different2casks for transportation. 3These type of costs need to be looked at4and there needs to be an answer of where those costs5would come from. So there is more information needed6to fully vet this transaction. 7It was encouraging to hear that the NRC8still has the availability of request for additional9information and we would support the NRC availing10itself of that to provide more information to itself11and to the public about how this transaction will do12what everyone wants it to do and get the site cleaned13up quickly.14CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Kyle. 15We're going to have Clay Turnbull. And16then after Clay, we're going to have Gary Sachs.17MR. TURNBULL: Hi. Good evening. Thanks18for coming up to Vermont. So it's -- this is a warm19welcome. Yeah. 20I hope, in -- in not too many years, you21folks at NRC are going to be able to, if -- almost22brag that you were up at this meeting in Vermont23because the decommissioning turned out so successful24in Vermont that it's -- it's like -- it's what people25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 118talk about and you'll be able to say yeah, we were1there early in that process.2In a -- in a complex project like this, to3be successful, it is essential to know what the goal4is. And in this case, that -- that is like what will5the site look like post-decommissioning. And I -- oh,6I'm sorry. Clay Turnbull. I live in Townshend and7it's been a long time since I said and I proudly live8in a solar powered home for twenty-five years, off9grid.10And why not see if we can do the job here11of decommissioning? Can it be done? Can it be done12while honoring the commitments that Entergy has13already made to the State of Vermont?14We're presented with one option is let it15rust. The other option is to wait sixty years. 16Another option is let's rush into this and get it --17let's -- we need to do this now. It's got to be done18by the end of the month, you know, make your decisions19right away, the rush or rust option. Or another20option is you can have a greenfield. Sixty years from21now, Entergy is going to honor their commitments. 22They're not going to rubblize. You're going to have23a really beautiful site in sixty years or so;24decommissioning will be done. Or you can get a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 119brownfield and we'll do it now. 1And it's -- and it's -- we're given these2-- these greenfield or brownfield or rush-or-rust3options. What if we all have the goal of making that4site just as clean as possible, at least as clean as5Maine Yankee, so that we can all look back and not too6far down the road it would be -- really wonderful to7have that site decommissioned and ten years from now8be saying what a great job we did. So I say how about9we start with -- with that as a goal in mind. 10Thank you.11CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thanks, Clay. 12After Gary, we're going to have R.T. Brown13and then Lorie Cartwright.14MR. SACH: Thanks for coming up, NRC. 15Mr. State, I'm a little bit -- I haven't16been to these meetings, many of them, because I was17undergoing chemotherapy. And I would -- I remembered18Chairman Yeskel of the NRC came and met with the19activists a few years ago. I sure would like to meet20Mr. State to get some answers questioned because it21seems like this whole thing that's based on22proprietary data. 23You know, if Entergy -- I mean, I'm sorry,24NorthStar, Entergy, they're so close to each other. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 120If NorthStar disappears 2028, let's say,1what do we do? Go back to proprietary information? 2I don't see how that works. I'd like to understand3more. Mr. Marinello -- Kyle Landis-Marinello spoke4about that line item piece in the original. And I5didn't see that in the current P.S.D.A.R.. But6needless to say, I haven't started.72007, the World Business Academy wrote if8private investors won't buy into nuclear, why should9the public? In 2007, Entergy tried to spin off its10reactors into a company called SpinCo. In 2009,11Entergy officials were found to have misspoken. 12Punishment was minimal, financial or not at all. What13happened is that Entergy, after the misspeaking of142009, promised to be honest and forthcoming. Then it15shut down. 16How sad that we, here in Vermont, never17got the chance to believe or experience Entergy making18good on their promises to be honest and forthright19with us. However, they have come up at Election Day,20this past year, hey, we found somebody to buy our21reactor. Where the heck with NorthStar when Entergy22was trying to sell the reactor for all those years? 23How come you didn't buy in then? What is this crap24now?25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 121I mean, so in Election Day 2016, Entergy1made -- I mean, found a buyer. Here's NorthStar. Is2Entergy hiding responsibility for its poor purchase3decisions? Where was NorthStar when Entergy had the4reactor on sale? What insurance does the NRC have5that Mr. State can provide that there are no potential6liens into him for perhaps millions of dollars from7previous court cases or endeavors? I'd like to know8that before this happens. 9Areva is being bailed out by the French10government. W.C.S. is already involved here, per the11compact. So to have them as part as -- of this12NorthStar is kind of redundant. But Burns and13McDonnell's always good to get a discount. 14Okay. I perceived the D.U.I. settlement15agreement as an ultimatum. If it wasn't accepted16verbatim, it would not have been approved. It would17not have been passed into law. That's not a18negotiation. That's an ultimatum.19The -- this P.S.D.A.R. means very little20in a sense because the NRC doesn't approve it. It's21simply that NorthStar has to do it. It's like there's22a box they have to check off between here and the23decision. 24Is there an ISFSI pad being built right25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 122now? It started in April as per the --1UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Off mic)2MR. SACH: Great. Good. 3I believe this NorthStar deal is to --4well, I'll leave that for the last. 5Okay. Vernon has been pro-V.Y. for forty-6two years. Can we let them have the waste? I mean,7many of the Vernon residents, I mean, no disrespect,8had said we'll take the dry casks. Let's let them9have some, not have to put it all on the concrete,10give it all to -- make you guys responsible.11CHAIR O'CONNOR: Gary, I'm going to ask12you --13MR. SACH: Wait, very quickly.14CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay.15MR. SACH: I've got two things. 16I need a picture from you guys, either17Entergy or NorthStar, how much of that site is going18to be visible or going to be usable for people? One-19hundred-twenty-five-acre site. Maine Yankee has a lot20of site that's not accessible because of the ISFSI. 21Can we get a picture?22Would you guys like to see a picture to23see if there's actually going to be a recreational24area? Have you seen it? 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 123A project -- a projected picture of what1it would look like, have you seen it, Panel? No. 2Thank you. I'd like to see that prior to whatever3transfer occurs. I'd like Mr. State to be more4forthcoming. I know, I'm sorry, I was going through5cancer, but I give you guys responsibility. I think6this entire deal is to line Mr. State's pocket.7CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 8R.T. Brown and then Lorie Cartwright. And9then we're going to have Rich Holschuh next, after10them.11MR. BROWN: Hi. Good evening. Thank you12to the Panel, the NRC, and to NorthStar for being here13tonight. I've timed myself to a minute and a half. 14Let's see if I can achieve this.15Closer. Good evening. My name is R.T.16Brown. I work for the Brattleboro Development Credit17Corporation and I'm the Windham County Economic18Development Programs Project Manager. I also19administer some programs related to entrepreneurship20and innovation in the region.21The B.D.C.C. is one of twelve regional22development corporations throughout the state and we23serve the Windham region. Our sister entity, the24Southeastern Vermont Economic Development Strategies,25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 124developed the region's CEDS, or Comprehensive Economic1Development Strategy. It's essentially a road map for2the region -- or economic development road map. 3My academic and professional background is4in applied economics as it relates to local and5regional development.6We entirely support the expedited process7as proposed by NorthStar as an accelerated timeline by8decades poses many opportunities for the community in9the region. Due to the accelerated timeline and10speaking from their perspective of regional economic11development entity, it should be noted that this --12this place has a greater pressure on the Town of13Vernon, which has very limited resources, to14sufficiently and clearly plan and develop the best15possible long-term reuse of the site.16There is an opportunity here to think17about Vernon's infrastructure and what -- what can be18done to provide the greatest possible long-term19economic impact for what has been a very supportive20rural host community. I think it was said very well21in the last P.S.B. meeting by someone -- and my22apologies, I don't -- I don't know their name. 23But essentially the idea is that NorthStar24has a tremendous opportunity to show their leadership25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 125in this field that is only going to grow. We1encourage the parties here to put the community first2and do everything possible to not simply meet3expectations, but exceed them in ways that exhibit4innovation, thoughtfulness, and leadership as the next5chapter of nuclear power generationers is written6starting in Vernon, Vermont. Thank you.7CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, R.T. 8Lorie Cartwright and then after Rich, it's9going to be Peter Vanderdoes.10MS. CARTWRIGHT: I apologize, I wasn't11closer. It happened faster than I expected. 12I am Lorie Cartwright and I am from13Brattleboro, Vermont. I would also like to take this14chance to thank the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for15coming to Brattleboro to speak to us and to hear us. 16As a taxpayer, a citizen of this great17state and nation, a mother, and a fierce proponent of18truly renewable energy, solar, wind, and hydro, I19would like nothing more than to see this site be20cleaned up as expeditiously and safely as possible,21especially if it paves the way for the site to be made22available for the production of such truly renewable23forms of energy. It would be a boon to the local24economy.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 126It seems that what divides some of the1people that we've heard from tonight from Vernon, from2some of the other people we've heard from tonight, is3this notion of having the site be released on an4unrestricted basis. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission5representatives outlined what some of the6decommissioned sites look like. But I wish that when7I'm done with my comment, they would just go over that8point again because I was always under the conception9that there aren't any former commercial reactor sites10that have been unrestricted. And that would include11the entire site of the former commercial reactor. 12So if -- if somebody from the NRC could13articulate that for us again at the end of my comment14period, I would -- I would really appreciate it.15I do, again, think that that is the deep16divide. And for something this important, I think17that, frankly, I don't see there being anything more18important facing this world right now than the19cleaning up of nuclear power plant sites and the20storage of the high level, medium level, low level,21any level radiated waste. It's the most critical22issue for all of us. 23So if we could have a better understanding24about the real feasibility of seeing that site cleaned25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 127up and redeveloped in our lifetimes, I think that that1would be really helpful for everyone here to get2closer to what it is that they want at the end of3this.4I do have concerns about some of the ways5that the proposed purchaser is going to want to go6about cleaning up the site, and I won't spend a lot of7time talking about it. I apologize. I'm just -- I'm8really emotional about this because, like I said, I9can't consider anything more important to us than10this. 11But rubblization is a concern; that is12diluting the pollution.13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Lorie, I'm going to have14to ask you to wrap it up.15MS. CARTWRIGHT: Okay. Okay. And then I16just -- I do want to say that it was great concern to17me that one of the representatives from NorthStar18suggested that they saw this sort of a clean-up the19same as any other site, that the fact that it was a20radioactive site really didn't make that much of a21difference to them. I think that that makes all of22the difference in the world. 23Thank you.24CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Lorie. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 128There was a question, I think, to the NRC.1MR. WATSON: Yes, let me go ahead and2follow up on that. The sites that had been3decommissioned, all ten of them have been released for4unrestricted use, meaning the owner can do what they5want to on them. A few of them that which the fuel6was removed completely before by the -- the fuel was7removed by the Department of Energy are fully open to8any redevelopment that they want to. That would9include Shoreham, Pathfinder, Saxton.10About one-third have become parks or some11other use, like Maine Yankee. I mentioned that one12before. There are a number of plants where they had13built additional fossil units. At Rancho Seco, they14have two combined fossil units, combined cycle, they15use gas or whatever fuel they want to use. At16Humboldt Bay, they have ten combustion units which17they use for stabilizing the grid in Northern18California. 19And at La Crosse -- both Humboldt Bay and20La Crosse right now are undergoing decommissioning,21but La Cross has a large coal powered plant right next22to the nuclear plant. So the sites can be reused for23a variety of purposes. It's really up to the owner.24MS. CARTWRIGHT: If I may, just a point of25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 129clarification, sir, thank you. The sites where the1fuel has not been removed, are those fully2unrestricted sites.3MR. WATSON: Yes, except for the fuel4facility -- the storage facility.5MS. CARTWRIGHT: Okay. Thank you.6MR. WATSON: Uh-huh.7CHAIR O'CONNOR: It's your turn, Rich.8MR. HOLSCHUH: (Foreign language spoken) 9My name is Rich and I'm from this place, namely10Brattleboro. I serve on the Vermont Commission for11Native American Affairs. I work with the contemporary12Native community in the State of Vermont. I'm here as13spokesperson for the Elnu Abenaki Tribe, with the14backing of the Nulhegan and the Koasek.15Thank you for traveling here to the Land16of the People Separated, the southwestern most part of17Ndakinna, the Abenaki homeland. 18As indigenous people, our concern is both19for the land and the people for they are the same. I20would like to open with a short perspective of how we21see this situation. You may not have heard this22before. I don't know. But I'd like to make three23brief comments, not questions just comments.24This -- tonight, this gathering is the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 130latest step in a story that has been unfolding for1less than fifty years, blink of an eye. The spiritual2beliefs of the indigenous people tell us that time is3a whole, not a linear progression. We are all part of4the same. There is no separation from anyone or5anything else, no matter the time or the shape, only6a relationship in a different way of being in the7world. 8Energy and matter are conserved, basic9physics. Everything matters. The past is always with10us and the future is now. We have a great11responsibility as Native people and hopefully as human12beings to honor these relationships and conduct13ourselves in a matter befitting our role in creation. 14But now we have some new strange things,15things that have never been here before. Things that16we can't see, but they're still real. Radionuclides,17they're not a part of natural law. They have never18been here before in these quantities. They're19antithetical to life itself. They don't fit. They're20not part of the story, a story that's been going on21for millennia.22But yet, here they are. Somebody made a23decision to step outside of relationship and now we24have to live with it. The deliberations of the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 131moment, today, the next few weeks, years, will be with1us for hundreds and thousands of years. Seems like a2long time and it is. 3I ask you to remember that the Abenaki and4their ancestors have been in this land, the land where5Vermont Yankee sits, for twelve thousand years. 6That's a long time. They've been flourishing7sustainably within the relationship. And with8thankfulness, we are still here. (language other than9English) as we say in our language. And we want to10honor this place, our homeland. We want the future11generations to be able to give thanks in the same12manner and enjoy these gifts, as well. 13We ask that you make these decisions14regarding the disposition of this great incongruity15carefully. It affects everyone and everything. So16I'd like to make three short comments.17CHAIR O'CONNOR: Rich, they do have to be18short.19MR. HOLSCHUH: Okay. These are with20respect to the P.S.D.A.R. Vermont Yankee sits on an21ancient gathering place, a place for settlement,22gathering, fishing, working the land, performing23ceremony, and a final resting place when it came time24to walk on. The cultural significance of the site has25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 132never been fully acknowledged. 1I don't know if everybody knows this, but2that's the case. NorthStar should know this. The3original 1972 Atomic Energy Commission license for the4plant makes it very clear, stating, quote, no formal5archaeological survey was conducted at Vermont Yankee6Nuclear Power Station prior to initial construction. 7And yet, for one example, historic newspaper accounts8record the unearthing of multiple indigenous burials9in the immediate area for the two hundred years10immediately preceding the facility. 11I'll leave it at that. This needs to be12on the record.13The P.S.D.A.R. and the revised P.S.D.A.R.14merely quote the license that came before, and it's15all made up. It's a myth.16Second point. Environmental review17procedures that have been put in place at Vermont18Yankee Nuclear Power Station regarding undertakings19that involve land disturbing activities, this is20beyond decommissioning, undisturbed areas, require a21notification procedure involving the State Historic22Preservation Officer to establish the -- actions23necessary to protect known or undiscovered cultural24resources. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 133This is going to carry through in site1restoration, as well. There is going to be a lot of2staging areas, a lot of storage areas beyond the3plant, itself. We request the tribes be included in4these procedures, going forward, and the protocols5that will accompany them.6And the last point, environmental justice,7Executive Order 12898 from 1994 directs Federal8executive agencies to consider environmental justice9under the National Environmental Policy Act. It is10designed to ensure low income and -- minority11populations do not experience a disproportionately12high and adverse human health or environmental13effects. 14Now we all know where the nuclear waste15sites are. They are settled -- they are set in areas16with marginalized, usually indigenous people. While17you're considering how this is going to take place and18where these things are going to go, we want you to19know that we stand with these people, we ask that you20consider their lives equally and fairly as your21responsibility. 22Thank you.23CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. 24Peter Vanderdoes, and then Nancy Braus.25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 134MR. VANDERDOES: I think Nancy Braus has1left us. 2Peter Vanderdoes from Brattleboro. First,3I'd like to thank Ms. O'Connor for her very concise4and intelligent question. Who will be left holding5the bag? And Senator MacDonald's point that the6people holding the bag will have empty pockets. 7Mr. Leach, who was here earlier and spoke8so eloquently of Areva, I would like to point out some9of their shortcomings in cost and time overrides. The10Flamanville Nuclear plant in France, which began11construction in 2007, was supposed to be finished in122012, is still under construction today.13Initially, it was estimated at three point14five billion euros, but the cost has ballooned to ten15point five billion euros. 16Another point is the Olkiluoto Nuclear17Power Plant in Finland, which Areva was working on,18was due to be finished in 2009. It is also still19under construction. And the initial cost has gone up20from three point five billion euros to eight billion21euros. The Finnish Electrical Utility, T.V.O., is22taking Areva to court. 23I had a whole bunch of financial24information, which I was going to go through, but it25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 135was very lengthy. So I decided just to point out to1the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 10 C.F.R. 50.38, the2ineligibility of certain applicants. Any person who3is a citizen, national, or agent of a foreign country4or any corporation or other entity which the5Commission knows to be owned, controlled, or dominated6by an alien foreign corporation or foreign government,7shall be ineligible to apply for or obtain a license.8So I know that that's sort of pushed under9the rug because Areva has done a lot of work in the10United States. But I'm wondering why shouldn't an11American Corporation be doing that work? We need the12jobs. 13Thanks very much.14CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Peter. 15Nancy Braus appears to have left the16building. 17Is there anyone else who hasn't signed up18or I've missed you that would like to make a comment?19Yes, please come to the microphone.20MS. BURNETT: My name is Audrey Burnett. 21I'm a member of the Vermont Yankee Decommissioning22Alliance. I understand that NorthStar is partnering23with the Texas-based W.C.S., to send our high-level24nuclear waste to a community in Andrews County, Texas. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 136Our group, along with other citizen-based groups,1recently sponsored residents from Andrews County who2are very opposed to receiving our high-level nuclear3waste. 4They are concerned that although they are5told this is interim storage, there is presently no6safe long-term plans for high-level nuclear waste7storage. They're concerned about environmental8impacts or potential terrorist attacks on this waste. 9I mean, this is where they live and where they're10raising their children. They say that they had no11nuclear power plants and yet they're hosting our12waste. 13I'd like everyone to consider what's being14proposed and the people that will be affected by our15poisonous waste for possibly generations to come. 16Thank you.17CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you very much. 18Is there anyone else who hasn't made a19comment, but would like to? Yes, please come to the20microphone.21MR. ZALUZNY: Hi. Steve Zaluzny, resident22of Vernon, Vermont. Just quick, a little bit of23history. My father was a selectperson for years in24Vernon. He was there when they built the plant, along25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 137with other select people, obviously. Spent a lot of1time and had a lot of late night meetings, one or two2o'clock in the morning, to deal with the nuclear power3plant coming to town. 4So I don't want to bore you with too much5of that. But one of the promises that was made,6obviously and I don't know all the background or the7paperwork or the legal documents, but the people of8Vernon were promised that the nuclear waste would be9removed once the plant was shut down. So that10obviously has become an issue.11The -- the A.G. mentioned that, you know,12what -- what will happen after a certain year, fifty-13two, or whatever as far as cost. And I guess before14I get done maybe that's the question I'd like15answered, you know, and who pays that cost of material16on-site as it goes beyond a certain point? 17And then I want to speak a little bit18about just the idea of, you know, I'm a small19contractor, obviously, but certain things are also20relevant, small or big, as far as construction21contracts. One of the things, you know, if you're22doing a bonded job, obviously a bond sounds like a23good thing and it can be. But if there's any24disputes, a bond could be contested and then you're in25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 138a legal situation trying to deal with it. 1I guess, my comments in regard to a2contract are obviously up front you need to know what3the costs are. Okay? That's critical especially in4this case. So whoever we're going to trust, Public5Service or the NRC or whoever it is, we need to know6what the costs are accurately before the contract is7signed and the work is done. 8Once that is established, a schedule of9values has to be set. That is basically what the cost10of each segment of the job will be.11Once the work proceeds, it is critical12that the contractor is paid accordingly to what work13is done as far as its value. If a contractor would be14overpaid, that's not a good situation. So that is why15whoever will oversee this is able to measure the work16that's done and that it's done properly. That way, if17a contractor defaults, there's still enough money left18to finish the work. So that is also critical. 19So I think that's really important to any20contract. Obviously, this has nuclear waste involved,21but these requirements are -- are still relevant for22any contract. And I think that's what I, as a23resident of Vernon, want my government to do in this24situation, that they scrutinize and make sure that the25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 139contract is followed. And that's really going to make1this work. Whether it's done over six years or sixty2years that still has to happen to this -- for this to3work.4So now again to my question on storage,5whoever should try to answer that as far as cost and6who pays the cost of storage if it were -- if we don't7have a place to put nuclear waste, you know, in -- you8know, in the time span we're hoping that will happen.9MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: I recognize your concern10about spent fuel. And I want to remind everyone in11this room that we do not make policy as to what is12going to be the disposition of spent fuel. The13Nuclear Regulatory Commission only maintains that they14be held safely, securely, and all the other issues. 15I can tell you that there's going to be16some point where if there is no resolution found for17spent fuel, there will be additional costs. But a lot18of things will have to transpire between now and then. 19This is not something that's going to happen20overnight. 21There is sufficient funding right now,22under the guidance given by the Department of Energy23-- and I grant you that the Department of Energy has24not had a very good track record as to what their25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 140promises are or not. That's a fact. But there will1become a point, and I'm not going to deny it, that2sometime -- sometime, additional funding will have to3be found. 4The problem that we're going to be having5is that they're not going to be necessarily popular6answers. The licensee would still be held responsible7for all costs because the license for the ISFSI or the8dry cask storage is not terminated until such time9that the fuel is removed.10So I cannot sit here and tell you what the11costs are to an infinite time. There's very little12way that I could do that for you. All I can say is13that if it's going to happen, the licensee will be14responsible for the cost. 15Now, an added point to this, many of the16licensees have been suing the Department of Energy to17reclaim some of these costs, and they have been18winning in court. There's also been, unfortunately,19not necessarily a very good payment on these20judgments. 21I don't have answers to what's going on22with the Department of Energy. All I can tell you is23that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission does not make24that policy. So one way or the other, as we've been25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 141talking about throughout the evening, the licensee is1responsible for the costs until the license is2terminated completely.3MR. ZALUZNY: Okay. Thank you very much. 4I appreciate your answer.5CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. I think there6was one more person who wanted to comment? Yes?7MS. OLSON: I was reluctant to come up8because I --. 9CHAIR O'CONNOR: You have to introduce10yourself.11MS. OLSON: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Tina12Olson. And I live in Brattleboro. I came here from13New York City. I've been here three years. I grew up14in Massachusetts. But I belong here. This is --15these are my people. This is my land. I love the16Connecticut River. And I'm a music therapist and so17of all the details that is involved here I don't know18much. 19But what I hear is that we share a future. 20And I think, probably deep down, all of us love the21land. So it seems to me, after listening, this comes22down to a commitment to do the absolute best to save23the land and ourselves and the future. 24And I also understand that there really25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 142isn't a satisfactory way to store this terrible --1curse in a way. So -- and I felt like I do need to2say something in honor of our democracy. And I3appreciate all of us here together, which I think deep4down we share the same desire and that we can come5together and hear each other so. 6I don't normally do this, but I felt that7I need to speak. And I think all I can say is let us8do the best we can in a way, even if it is the most9expensive, and even if it takes a long time because we10do love the land and our people. Thank you.11CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you very much. 12Is there anyone else in the public that13wants to make a comment or has a question? All right. 14Thank you so much. 15I want to thank -- we're not done the16meeting. But I want to thank the public for coming17this evening. I think it was important and it was18because of the public that we asked the NRC to come19here this evening. So I want to thank all of you for20showing up. And it's -- I think it's very instructive21for us as a Panel to hear what -- what you're thinking22and what your thoughts and concerns are because that's23part of what we -- we like to know, as well.24Just a little bit of housekeeping, if you25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 143want to make a comment and you didn't want to do it in1this forum or you go home tonight and you think of2something that you want to say, the NRC is accepting3comments on the license transfer until June 23rd. And4again, you can go on the NRC website or what we'll be5doing is emailing you out --. 6MR. PARROTT: Kate, could I -- this is7Jack Parrott over here in NRC --8Could I elaborate on that?9CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes -- yes.10MR. PARROTT: -- public comment part? 11Yesterday, we published our Federal12Register notice that it offers that opportunity. And13I just want to make sure you know that it's -- the14website to do that is W W W dot regulations dot gov. 15And you use the docket number NRC dash 2017 dash zero16one two five. And all that information is in the17Federal Register notice. 18I don't know if it's -- if it's possible19if you could put that Federal Register notice, maybe,20on your website, it might make it easier for people to21find information.22CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes, we will. We'll put23that on this -- our Panel has a site on the State of24Vermont's website, located on the Public Service25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 144Department site. And what we'll do is we'll make sure1that that link is on it. And I'll make sure that we2email out to everybody what that email address is and3what the link is. So we'll push the information out4as much as we can so that everybody has that5information.6There was a question earlier about where7people can find the slides from tonight's8presentations. And there are two places. Entergy has9a website, V Y decommissioning dot com. And again,10it's also on the State of Vermont's Public Service11Department website. And the Nuclear Decommissioning12Citizens Advisory Panel has our own site there. So if13you're looking for that, you can find it. 14The meeting will be re-broadcast on15B.C.T.V., if you want to watch it on your television16or you can see it any time online. So anything you17wanted, you can rewatch the meeting at two in the18morning if you -- if you have nothing else to do and19you can't sleep.20I want to thank -- before we -- before we21do a little bit more housekeeping on the Panel, I do22want to thank the representatives from the NRC for23coming. And I want to thank Scott State and Mike24Twomey for coming. We appreciate it very much. 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 145And I think somebody said this may be the1last time we ever see the NRC. And I don't think2that's true because there are other issues that are3going to be coming up. And I had a conversation with4them, prior to this meeting, and there may be other5reasons for them to come up and fill us in on what's6going on. So we -- we appreciate that offer, as well.7The next NDCAP meeting is, at this point,8scheduled for June 22nd. We have confirmed that9representatives from Holtec, they are the company that10is doing the transferring of the fuel from the spent11fuel pool, to the second dry cask storage pad. They12have confirmed that they will be coming to the13meeting. 14We also have confirmation that15representatives from Areva, which is one of the16partners with NorthStar, will be coming to the17meeting. There is a chance, based on everybody's18schedule, we're dealing with a lot of people, that19that meeting may be pushed back a week. And this is20news to some people in the room here, so I apologize21for springing it on you.22So I'm going to be sending an email out to23the Panel and to all the people that are impacted if24we change the date and see if that's a changeable date25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 146or not. And what we do for all of you here is we post1all the information, the days and times and places of2our meetings, again on the State of Vermont website. 3And we also email it out so we get it out as much as4possible. 5So tentatively, put June 22nd, but it may6be bumped back a week, depending on the logistics of7doing that. 8I don't know if anyone else on the Panel9wants to say anything before we adjourn our meeting? 10No? Everybody is going no. So again, I want to --. 11SENATOR MACDONALD: I'm sorry. Say that12again, Madam Chair?13CHAIR O'CONNOR: Does anyone want to say14anything before we adjourn the meeting? Oh, yes, we15got to give you a microphone, Senator.16SENATOR MACDONALD: Madam Chair, public17policy and decisions of this sort are best made when18there are clear rules of what happens in the future. 19And the NRC's job or the Congress' job is to make it20clear who is responsible if such -- if this goes21forward. 22Many of us, including myself, would like23to see the money spent sooner, rather than later. But24if the NRC is not telling us who's responsible if a25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 147good faith project comes up short and the answer is1we'll find out when it happens, what use is the NRC?2CHAIR O'CONNOR: Does anyone else on the3Panel want to make a comment? 4Yes, Steve?5MR. SKIBNIOWSKY: Steve Skibniowsky here. 6I'd like to just certainly thank all the7panelists and NRC. that are here this evening. But I8would also like to remind the panelists that during9the presentations, during the public comments and so10forth, it would be most courteous to refrain from11talking and essentially ignoring what the individuals12are saying, until they're finished speaking. 13And I think it's a matter of common14curtesy in a public forum like this and I would like15to remind all of my fellow panelists that that, at16least, is the type of protocol that I'm familiar with17and would certainly support in the future.18CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Steve. 19Any other comments or questions from20anyone on the Panel? 21All right. Again, thank you all for22coming. 23David Andrews has made the motion to24adjourn. Does anyone second that motion?25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433 148UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Second.1CHAIR O'CONNOR: Everybody seconds that2motion. 3All those in favor?4THE PANEL: Aye.5CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. We're6adjourning and thank you so much, everyone, for7coming.8(The meeting adjourned at 9:36 p.m.)910 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701(202) 234-4433