ML20009F393
| ML20009F393 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Susquehanna  |
| Issue date: | 07/23/1981 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8107310097 | |
| Download: ML20009F393 (98) | |
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DOCKET NO. 50-387
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ALLEGHENY ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE, INC.
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(Susquehanna Steam Electric Station
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'b UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the matter of:
PENNSfLVANIA POWFR & LIGilT COMPANY and Docket Nos.
ALLEGIIENY E L E C R I C COOPERATIVE, INC.
50-387 (Susquehanna Steam Electric Station, 50-388 Units 1 and 2)
Grand Ballroom Genetti Be.' Wes te rn Motor Inn 77 East Market Street Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania
(
)
Thursday, July 23, 1991.
The hearing in the above-entitled matter was convened, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 A.M.
BEFORE:
JAMES P.
GLEASON, ESQ., CII AI RMAN,
ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD.
MR. GLENN O.
B R I G'I T, MEMBER.
DR. PAUL W.
PURDOM, MEMBER.
G & G REPORTING AGENCY, INC.
FRED L GILOTTI, C.S.R PRES.
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OLD FORGE. PENNA. 18515
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(717) 457-4683 (717) 457-8811 (717) 829 5070
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APPEARANCES:
2' On behalf of the Applicants:
3 JAY'E. SILBERG,.ESQ. and MATIAS F.
TRAVIESO-DIAZ, ESQ.,
4 SIIAW,. PITTMAN,. POTTS ' AND TROWBRIDGE,
1800 M STREET, N. W.,
5 WAS!!INGTON,
D.
C.;
.and l
6 BRYAN A.
- SNAPP, LEGAL DEPARTMENT 7'
PENNSYLVANIA POWER AND'LIGi!T' COMPANY TWO NORTII NINTII STRECT 8
ALLENTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA 18101 9
On behalf of the NRC Regulatory Staff:
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~
10 JAMES M.
CUTCIIIN, IV,.ESQ. and l
JESSICA LAVERTY, ESQ.,
11 OFFICE'OF Ti!E EXECUTIVE LEGAL-DIRECTOR, U.S.
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 12 WAS!!INGTON,
D.
C.
13 On behalf'of the Commonwealth'of Pennsylvania:
~
14 -
ROBERT ADLER,..ESQ.,-P.A.
I COMMONWEALTil'OF PENNSYLVANIA 15 RALPH J.
- HIPPERT, 16 DEPUTY DIRECTOR.
5 17 PLANS AND PREPAREDNESS:
PENNSYLVANIA EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT'.' AGENCY 18 On behalf of Petitionere for Leave'to' Intervene:
19' P II Y L L I S ZITZER, substituting;for DR. JUDITII II.- JOIINSRUD,
20
.CO-DIRECTOR.
ON BEIIALF OF ENVIRONMENTAL COALITION 21 ON NUCLEAR POWER.
22 TilOMAS J.. IIALLIGAN,
,. O N BEllALF OF 23 TIIE CITIZENS. AGAINST ' NUCLEAR DANGER 24 COLLEEN MARSII (Pro'Se) 8 25 S
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On behalf of thecCommonwealth of Pennsylvania:
3 j WILLIAM DORNSIFE, i
TIIOMAS GERUSKY AND 4
T IIO M A S POLLOG, PENNSYLVANIA BUREAU OF RADIATION COMMONWEALTII OF PENNSYLVANIA 5
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On behalf of Petitioners for Leave to Intervene:
7 GERALD SCIIULT Z, ESQ.
ON BEIIALF OF SUSQUEIIANNA ENVIRONMENTAL 8 l ADVOCATES i
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2 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
All right.
We are 3
ready.
4 We are back in -session again. cHas 5 janyone heard fron Mrs. Marsh?
Oh, Mrs. Marsh, you are 6
(here.
Thank you for showing up.
i 7
The first thing we will get to that we 8
are talking now about the beginning of the area of each 9
point of agenda and summary dispositions in a hearing 10 schedule as the Applicant's Attorney has pointed out.
11 The Commission has changed the rules so that motions 12 for summary disposition can be filed at anytime up to qL/
13 and including the hearing when.the' Board concurs 14 So that it doesn't interfere with the 15 I other proceedings that are going on, it is obvious it 16 seems, that-this matter ought to be evaluated so that it t.
17 is accomplished in the sense of fairness to all the la parties involved.
It also has been contemplated from 19 the beginning, that there would be a separation of the l
20 issues.
In other words, the hearings would be bifurcated 21 and that the environmental issues would be considered 22 first and be followed,-I think, the early schedule is 23 some 8 or 9 months later.
Of course, that schedule is 24 way beyond us now because at that time reports that were 25 going to be coming im were widely separate for each bs) v-G & G R E P O R TIN G, AGENCY,. INCL. P.O.
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1 other as far as the time is-concerned and now they 2
are practically ill in as we heard yesterday.
3 It would'.be the Board's intention to 4
start the hearings on October the 6 on environmental.
.5 issues and it would.be our intention.there to have a 1
6 3-day week hearing schedule--Tuesday through Thursday.
7 7.nd further, we would follow the environmental issues 8
with the safety issues so that-there would'be no, kind'of 9
a break between the hearings.
By that time,'the final
]
10 reports. would have been in several months prior to that
~
11 on the safety matters..
The supplement wo'uld have been 12 in and discovery would have.been completed.
This will 13 require, I believe, probably_some limited discovery to:
14 be going on on safety issues while we are into the 15 environmental hearings.but that is why we are on a 16 3-day week schedule.
17 We would encourage the parties to.make-18 their motions for summary disposition as much in advance 19 of the hearing dates as possible so that the parties 20 could be aware of it as early as can-be.
Further, so 21 that the Board can have time to rule on them and there-22 fore the parties would have'a full' understanding of what 23 they would have to prepare for-in terms of witnesses ~
24 through testimony.
25
.There was an indication early in one of' G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P.O. BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18S58 4717) 4S7-4883 457 8811
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the early Orders, I think, the March 1979 erder; that i
2 ' the identities, qualifications of subject matter, and 3
the substance of testimony of expert' witnesses would 4
have to be provided by, I think, 45 days before the 5
hearing.
6 MR. SILBERG:
Sixty days.
7 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Excuse me, 60 days.
8 And, I really do not see the necessity of that sort of 9
schedule.
I would like to-cut that in half so that it 10 would be a 30 day period or, in our context, the date 11 would be September the 7th as far as Environmental 12 Contentions are concerned and we would announce at a Ox' 13 later date the requirement for submitting that 14 information on safety issues or what the time requirement 15 is.
16 I think what I will do, is that I will 17 go all1 through these various points that I want to make, 18 and we will go back and discuss them.
If anybody Jants 19 to go back and discuss them for clarification, they can 20 do so; but'at least let me go through them.
In order for 21 there to be a sensible organization of evidence--
22.
. presentation of evidence for the hearing, it would be 23 helpEul for the Intervenors, and it would assist them 24 in their orderly presentation-of-tl-issues, if they 25 ! would agree among themselves aad advise parties ci the cs
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1 Board of the designation of a lead Intervenor for each 2
1ssue.
That would mean that each party then would La 3
under an obligation to--and a duty to work with that 4
lead I ntervenor on~the presentation of an affirmative i
ll case connected with the Contention.
It is important, 5
jofcourse, that the Intervenor do the selecting for the 6
7 presentation of this and perhaps among the four 8
Intervenors one person to be selected by the four to kind.
9 of pull the whole thing together to be discussed at the 10 subsequent session.
Hopefully, by getting together 11 alone, you an work out that kind of an agreement.
12 For the submission of testimony, we will
)
13 require written, direct testimony as well as proposed 14 Exhibits to be filed at least 21 days prior to the 15 hearing.
Where the testimony is to be sponsored by a i
16 panel of witnesses, there should be some indication of 17 which part of tr' sony is supported by which 18 witness.
The professional qualifications of expert 19 witnesses should be submitted with their testimony.
The 10 Board will require the submission of what is termed 21 l " Cross-Examination Plans."-
Now, these plans are 22 to be submitted to the Board alone not to the other 23 parties.
Their purpose is, and what they are is simply 1
24' an explanation of what you intand to prove by your 25 crcss-examination; what areas it will cover; what your 7
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1 objectives are.
They will help the. Board to prepare for 2 l the substance of issues at the proceeding and also help I
3 us to avoid accumulative and duplicative and argamenta-4 tive cross-examination which~is important for all of 5
us in unaffected terms.
6 I
It will'also help us to exclude, when 7
the time comes, if the time comes, to exclude that kind 8
of examination that should not-be admitted it. that
.9 hearing; so those plans should include objectives.
The 10 - ; affirmative evidence, if any, that the cross-examiner 11 intends to pro duce by his cross-examination or the 12 aspects of his direct ~ testimony--if the cross-examiner 13 tend 3 to disagree, of course, you will have your 14 position at that time of the testimony of those parties.
15 It can include, but is not necessary, the precise line t
16 of proposed questions that'you intend to follow; and, j
17 of course, as you realize, cross-examination. is limited.
l 18 to direct testimony.
19 We will anticipate at the same time, that~
f 20 these Cross-Examination Plans should be submitted to 1
i 21 the Board about 7 days, at least, before the hearing.
22 They should. include some indication, it is not necessary
'23 to do at that time, but we should have from u before i
24 the hearing some indication of the time veni! ired for 25 the presentation of your cases.
This is--
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G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123.
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1 MR. SILBERG:
I am sorry, is that.for-2 cross-examination?
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CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
No, this is for j
4 l presentation in the affirmative case and, of course, l
5 this applies to all the parties as well.
You can at 6 Ithe time that you submit the testimony--when you submit I
7
'the testimony it would be an appropriate time to submit 8
that kind of implication.
9 I think that we ought to stop at that i
10 ' point and go back.
We do have other areas to discuss.
11 We want to discuss a site visit.
I would suggest that 12 that is important to all of us.
We should suggest, too, 13 it would be participating in that site visit; we should' 14 have some indication.
The Board will desire to have 15 some indication that the witnesses,that each party 16 intends to call be by subpoena.
We would like to'have, 17 of course, the State to define as I indicated yesterday, 18 Ithe issues it intends to raise and they : are in addition j
l9 to those not indicated already.
That is.also fair to 20 all the parties.
21 All righ4 We will hear from the Applicar.t 22 first.
23 MR. SILBERG:
Thank you.
On the 24 assumption that the 3-day week schedule is intended to 25 allow discovery to be taking place during the hearing, I 7_
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1 guess, it is not clear to me that:
A.
There is going 2
to be discovery' going on during the hearing and,B.
That 3
even if there were, that that discovery -'would interfere 1
-4 with the hearing that would go on for perhaps 4 days 5
a week as we have recommended in our-letter to the Board.
6 I think both the Staff'and Applicant 7
have indicateu that it is unlikely that we would be 8
undertaking further discovery.
Therefore, if there is-9 any discovery, it would be directed against Applicants 10 and' Staff and I think both the Staff and ourselves have 11 indicated that we would be able to have that discovery 12 process go on in parallel with the' evidence you are 13 hearing.,
~
14 So, in terms of number of days of hearing, 15 from the standpoint interfering with the discovery 16 process, I would suggest that we could do with more~than 17 3 days a week hearing.
In terms of the schedule which 18 you have proposed, starting on October 6, there is a 19 minor problem with that first week.
As the-Board may 20 know, the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur starts on 21 Thursday evening on October 7 and that would be somewhat 22 of a problem, although not unsurmountable.
One 23 recommendation that we~had on the assumption that the i
24 hearing would start on October 5 or indeed, if it 25 started on October 6; not Thursday and'perhaps Friday, f.
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of whom would not be, most of whom would be able.to 3.
appear notwithstanding the Jewish holiday.
4
.Your point to" filing summary, dispositions 5
as early.as possible, we'will' agree-with that; and we
~
6
'will do our-best to accommodate that.
In terms of.60 7
day advance notice;'the Board's indication that 30 days 8
was appropriate.
I think under th'e particular circum-9 stances of this case 60 days woul'd-serve a very useful 10
' function for Staff and Applicants.
11 We had sought, in our discovery, to 12 obtain the identity of witnesses that the Interrenors 13 must be using.
We hav.e never received any identificati~ ort 14 of those witnesses.
If we are to prepare for the hearing 15 and if the Interveno'rs are to bring in witnesses, for i
16 their direct case, we would be at'.a disadvantage unless 4
17 we have' adequate time to undertake our own research into 18 those witnesses' prior statements, prior publications 19 and prior testimony.-
I am afraid if we are only to get l
20 that notification 30 days before the hearing with the 21 testimony itself comir.g in '30 days before the hearingi 22 that would not leave us an adequate time to find out 23 who these witnesses were, to find out whatever informa-l 24 tion we could about their positions, where they have l-25 testified in'tne past, their publications, et cetera.
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also have a question with respect to the submission of.
2 testimony and how that relates to this' advance.identi-3 fication of witnesses.
You indicated, that professional 4
qualifications would be submitted with the testimony i
5 iwhich is a standard. practice; However, the Board Order 6
,which specified the 60-day advance filing also required 7
that statement of professional qualifications accompany 8
l the identification of witnesses at that time.
I am not 9
sure whether the Board intended to delete the require-10 ment.
11 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
It would be better 12, to clear that-up right now.
I assumed that what perhaps r~-
(_)
13 would happen and generally does happen, is that 14 although the major expert witnesses be identified early enough to provide -that information at' the earlier date 15 with their qualifications--for additional witnesses 16 17 that would te submitted so as to prepare their testimony 18 and that would be an added reevirement at that time.
19 But, that was what the intention of the additional 20 requirement was.
The additional clarification of the 21 requirement with respect to having it included at the 22 same time the testimony was given.
MR. SILBERG:
Yes.
I think it is 23 24 appropriate to include it with the testimony, but I would also request that it be included with the earlier 25
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I filing, whenever that. filing has been' selected; 2
CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Okay.
3 MR. SILBERG:
I believe that.you-d indicated that this 30 day advance notice wouldfonly 5
apply to Envi'ronmental witnesses.
Since the Board
'6 i anticipates that Isafety issues would be heard immediately 1
7 following our. Environmental issues--and.I want to' 8
address that,also, and there would-not-be any break in
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9 the hearing.
10 CilAIRMAN GLEASON:
There will be an II off the record discussion.
12 (Whereupon, an off the record discussion O
l' was held.)
14 MR. SILBERG:
Since the hearing.will 15 go consecutively, there won't be a break between the 16 Environmental and Safety hearings.
I would think that I2 it be-appropriate for all the witnesses, both3 Safety 18 and Environmental, to be identified prior to the start-19 of the hearing whether it is.30 or 60 days prior to 20 the October 6th hearing.
If some later date is set-for 21 identifying the Safuty witrasses that would occur.right-22 -
in the middle of the hearing,'itself, and would not 23-give ourselves'an opportunity to do the necessary 24 b a c k g r o u n d r e s e a r c h' i n t o those witnesses.
25
..Considering ~ the amount. 'of time.that 1/
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parties havs had 'to' prepare fof"this hearing, that does
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2 not'seem like any significant burden that would make it 3
more difficult to' supply the identification'at.an; 4
earlier time.
5 I.think you'.have also asked the. parties c
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! to provide some estimate'as to the t'ime it would be f.
7 required to,present an affirmative case.
Ifam'not sure-8 whether we would'be.able to provide any useful' informa-9 tion because since testimony'is presented"in writing, 10
, essentially all of the time for presenting an affirmative 11 case is taken up oil cross-examination.-
If the Board 12-intends--wants to'get'information.'on the length of the z
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13 hearing, I would think that-the bes't-way would be to asr 14 for a estimate.1 of how long" the ' parties' 1anticipatehthat ;
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.15 they would be cross-examining a particular witness.
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I guess,.the experience I have had 16 17 indicates.that at is very.very hard to judge how long-18 that process will;take.
But, we would certainly :be
'19 willing to. provide our.best estimat'e, certainly.
20,
And finally,.the question of the order 2l of Contentions; I: think the Board-indicated that: it would j
prefer earlier, to. hear the Environmental issues 22 '
i 23 followed by the Safety issues.
'I think:in terms of
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witness convenience, and-because we are not;having a 25 too bifurcated hearing'because all of the issues are to G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY, IN C.. P.O.
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2 would not be more profitable just:to.take theJContentions 3
up in the order that it is most convenient for bringing i
4 I in witnesses.
That order may well be Environmental, i
5 ;followed by Safety; but in many cases.we are dealiag wit.j 6 fwitnesses who are not campany employees--some of who 7 0are affiliated with universities or outside consulting i
8 companies and whose schedules are not completely flexible 9
at the control of the people who are trying to manage i
10 lthis hearing process.
11 What I had hoped could be don 2 was to 12 provide a significant advance notice as to which O
x-13 witnesses would be coming up or which Contentions would la be coming up in which order; and. allow' parties'an l
15 adequate opportunity to prepare to cross-examine those 16 witnesses, as I mentioned in my letter of July 16.
I 17 think it would be useful in trying to figure out which 18 Contentions ought to come first.
If we could have some 19 advance notice, perhaps even today, as to any witnesses 20 or any Contentions on which the Intervenors currently 21 intend to bring their own witnesses I think that would 22 help us a great deal in trying to schedule the order of 23 Contentions.
24 Obviously, if the Intervenors do not 25 kriow whether they will have a witness on a particular (O
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',fh:5; Contention,' ',we cannot joQtliat,., but to the extent that 1
2 they already-do--or think that they will have a parti-3 cular witness, that would help significantly in trying--
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4 to schedule the order of Contentions.
5 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:.
I have two 6
observations in-connection.with.your comments, at least, 7-which I want.to communicate,to you.
8 The-first is in connection:with.your point.
9 0.
deviding the Environm_ ental from theiSafety' issues-.ever.
lthough it is one continuous hearing.
Th's. Board at this
-10 11 time, and I believe, the parties at this time know the 12 precise date at which the final Safety supp'lement will
-h3 13 be in everyone's hands.
Therifore, it does not have 14 any idea as to whether there will be any additional.
i 15 Contentions and any additional discovery in connectio'n i
16 with it.
Once'that occurs--once the period transpires 17 for d*scovery and for the submissions of Contentions, t
18 particularly then, the Board will be able.to issue 19 additional; it tends to at that time issue an additional 20 Order with respect to the--the dates required for the.
21 submission of th,e written testimony in other matters 22 in connection-with the Safety issues.
So that, at 23 least, was ~the Board's thinking.
24 The second point I would. observe, is in 25 ccnnection with'your mingling, if you will,-the Safety n
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BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18S18.(717) 4S7-4883 487-8811 m
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I and of the Environmental Contentions.
Tha Board would
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be apprecia$i've of recei'ving'a suggestien from the 3
Applicant'after this has been discusse>.ilwith the Staff' 4
and the : parties as to what Safety issues can go forward, t
5
.I don ' t' see how that i
can be done unless 6-yodLsitidown with the Intervenors at this point.
We are 7
going to get.into a-discussion, a little bit later,-with
-8 respect'to.the pause in-this 8752 Pre"llearing Conference 9
which'is~ going to.come back into session in a couple of 10 weeks..
And, p'erhaps at that time, perhaps you may-feel 11 free ~to meet a day-ahead of time with the parties and-12 work out~some kind-of acceptable arrangement with respect
) -
13 to the Safety Contentions which also could be clearsfor 14 hearing, if you will.
15 So, I just pass that on to you and then
~
16 we will get back to,it.
'D.o youlwant to.make a comment?
17 MR.-
CUTCHIN:
We worry that, Mr.
18 Chairman, in ge'neral--with respect.to-the scheduling 19
- matters, I would have no problem:with the discussions 20 made by the Licensee, by the' Applicant as modified ~by 21 the Board; but w.ch respect to the nami'ng'of witnesses i
22 sufficiently in advance, I could<atrongly 23' the Licensee--the. Applicant.'s suggestion because'my.
24 recollection is as was Mr. Silberg's was one of the-25 purposes:of' setting that 60 day ~ advance notice of O
G^& G R E POR TIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P.O. BOX 123. OLb FORGE. P A." 19518. (717) 457-4843 487-88.1
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i witnesses.
It was to make: up for ' the lack of response to discovery by naming thy wiine'sses, and I really think 2 i 3
if one is going to be preparing a direct case and has j
4 to submit written testimony 21 days in advance of the I
5 l hearing, he will come nearer knowing the name of that I
rl witne s s 60 days in advance then he will 30 days in l
6 7
advance because 9 days is not really going to give him 8
a lot of time to put together much in the way of direct 9
testimony.
So, I think, from the practical standpoint 10 maybe not 30, but every day more than that--if not 60, 11 something like 45 might be more helpful because it i.s 12 useful to know who these witnesses will be for the 13 Purposes of--as the Licensee said, as researching their 14 capabilities.
As far as estimating the time for a case, 15 16 again, in many if not most instances, the Staff's case 17 will consist of putting its direct testimony and more 18 of ten t han not, there is not a lot of cross-examination 19 by the
'4 t a t e.
Again, we have to have a better idea of 20 that after we see what the airect case of the other 21 parties will be.
But other than that, I would agree 22 wholeheartedly with the suggestion that the parties 23 seek to get together shortly in advance of this next 2a session to try to agree on an order of presentation of 25 Contentions.
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& G REPORTING AGENCY. I N C.. P.O. BOX 123. OLD FORGE. PA. 18518.(7171 457 4883 457 8811
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'I th'inkethat'iworked very well in other 1 l i cases that l i h a v e b e e n ^ i n N a~n.d,' Ohile it may be a little 2
3 premature at the moment, it certainly can get things 4
started.
I think it will be beneficial.
I guess that 5
is all I have to say at this point.
6 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
I understand.your 6
7 l concern about the resume, the lateness in the filing of 8
the expert witnesses,-and of the names and then of their 9
qualifications but I do have to say that that really was 10 not predicated in my recollection on the lack of discover y 1
11 responses.
Because it was in the first Order of the 12 Board, I believe, at least, that is my recollection.
)
13 MR. CUTCHIN:
I would have to refresh 14 mine.
15 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
It was March of 16 1979, in the Order of the Board.
17 All right.
Mr. Halligan, would you like 18 to go first, please?
19 MR. HALLIGAN:
Well, Mr. Chairman, I 20 have a couple of objec tions--I will have to speak much l
21 louder.
22 Yes, we have a few comments to make which l
23
--to the Board, but first, sir, could you indicate if l
24 the recommendations you are making--are they, in fact
[
l 25 based on this document known and, I believe, they are.
G & G R E POR TIN G AGENCY, I NC.. P.O.
BOX 123 - OLD FORGE, P A.
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I known as'I[nited'S'ates[Nuclea'r RegulatoryLCommission t
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Statement of Policy 'n conduct of licensing' proceedings o
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and the atmber 'o f' iE id CL'l'-81--8 and it'was issued on l or about.May 21, l'981 by Chase R. Stevens,$the Chief
- 4 L
5 Docketir9 and Service Branch Officer of the Secretary of i
6 the Ccimmission.'
Some of these recommendations you are
~
^ calling for to expedite t h e. h e a r i n g's w e r e -'i n. t h i s'
~
8 report, is.this the one-that'you are basing some or all-h~
9 of your suggestions'for directives?'
10 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
Let me say.that_I am
~
11-very mindful of that document as we are directed 4to be.
12-And, I -am trying to keep our schedule conformity'with 13 it.
Yes..
14 MR. HALLIGAN:
So-you are doing--
15 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
I t. ci J e s not spell out 16 in prec'ise detail all of the. things that I have talked:
17 about,.but as far'as attempting to. manage a trial, 18 certainly that has Ebeen very much in our minds.
19 MR. IIALLIGAN :
~ Thank you, sir.
I want 20 to be sure because we wouldn't want to bring it to the 21 attention of James Nelligan, the United States 22 Congressman from the-lith District of' Pennsylvania, 23 Wilkes-Barre.
24 tiow, I ~ woul'd'like'to put this-in 25 perspective, sir.
These.dirsctives about the submission O
G & G REPORTING. AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX,12'3 - OLD FORGE. PA. 19514.(717) 457 4403 487 4811
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j of testimony::and. direct case, u)oss-examination, and so s
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forth, it 'is! appropriate'for a'li~ censing procedure 3
wherein alliof.th9i parties are!of equal f ooting.
- Now, 4
this docu'ent, which I just identified, was sent to m
5 "The Counsel to parties in the'NIU: pro c e eding s",
Counseloz 6
Meane, Attorney at Law.
And, I wish to point out for 7
the record at this time that the Citizens Against 8
Nuclear Dangers will not necessarily be represented by 9
Counsel at the public hearings.
10 I also understand to.the best of my 11 ability that Co4&en Marsh and others of Mountain Top n
12-will-not be represented by Counsel.
f)
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13 It is.also my understanding that the 14
.oalition'on Nuclear' Power will not be represented by 15 Counsel at these hearings.
And, even though' Gerald-16 Schultz'is an Attorney at, Law, I understa'nd..he'will not 17 be representing..his group as an attorney.
IIe will be l
18 as an individual Interyenor--so all.four. of the 19 organizations and groups-that'have legal standing before 1
20 this Panel will, in fact, not be represented by attorneys.
21 So, th ey I would respectfully request that l
22 this Panel take this into consideration in trying to 2J attempt ~ to make an even-handed evaluation of the ground 24 rules and regulations.
I have-talked to attorneys in 3
this area who would simply not even consider coming ew I(
l
/
'IeG & G REPORTING AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123 - OLD FORGE, PA. 18518 -(717) 457-4483 457 8811 l
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I before. the -NRC' be,c, ause4 of 'the
- complexity of the lawse:-
2-and regulations andjwe/arerindividuals.who are'not
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3 trained in th,e ' law, and we--a're h..ere'to assist the-
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4 Licensing Board.
We will assist and - expedi te'. in anyway '
5 that we can, the1 hearing process ; 'btit you' must ltake into 6- : consideration, and IIbelieve the NRC ha's/that perogative 1
-7 and that-discretion ~~to take--that into. consideration that 8
organizations and individuals who.are-testifying 1be 9
given some consideration about these obscursef
_10 regulations.
11
.Now, as :f ar -as. the ' recommendations 1 by,' the i
12 Board for 30 days before:the start of the hearing for the i
13 submission of testimony.
The Citizens Against Nuclear 14 Danger of_Berwick whousupport;that, in fact, will put I
15 that into' motion,.:I'believe, at'sometime and whatis the 30 days for?-
16 17
' CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Twenty-one days for 18 testimony.
19
- MR. IIALLIG AN :
Thirty; days.was for the 20 notification of witnesses?
21 CIIAIPM AN GLE ASON : -
- Yes, 22 MR. IIALLIG AN :
We feel that that is 23 appropriate because it maybe, it"is quite likely that 24 we will not have any firm' commitment from so-called-25 expert witnesses' prior to that time because of the I
G & G R EPORTING ' AGE NCY. INC. - P.O.
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lateness in the year.
2
'If th'e heari'ngs were being held in the 3
summer months mere people are' available in the
. 1 4
academic field, for example.
They are on vacation and 5
they could have been here today, perhaps, if the hearing 6,.were in session.
But, come October, it is more l
7 problematic and we may not be able to obtain services of 8
individuals until not necessarily the last minute, but 9
we will adhere to the 30 days and also to alleviate 10 the concerns of the Applicant.
At least, The Citizens 11 Against Nuclear Dangers do not intend to bring an array 12 of witnesses.
There will be some, I can't state the (m
13 number, later again today, I.can identify a few people 14 perhapc informally for their interest.
And, we can--
15 maybe that will resolve their apprehension on that 16 matter.
17 Our case, our direct case will be concise 18 and that means brief and to the point.
The submission 19 of testimony 21 days before--by the way, that draft 20 testimony or it should be verbatim, which?
21 C F ' 7 RNIAN GLEASON:
So that is the 22 actual testimony.
23 MR. HALLIGAN:
All right.
Now, if there 24 is any amendment to that, if that is permissible, though 3
if the witness has some added remarks that may be A'
G & G REP :RTING AGENCY, IN C.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD FORGE. PA. 98518.(717) 457 4683 457 8811
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2
. CHAIRMAN.GLEASON:,
They will have to be on a
~ 'i 3 : diminutive' side-be'cabsE'the whole purpose of this was 4
to ?.dvise each oEher on Sach'other's case.
5 MR. HALLIGAN:
Well, let's say the 6
testimony of the witnesses is 10 pages of printed 7
testimony and he might want to amend that with two pages of calculations a week before on the computer,
8 9
something--that is all we are asking, it wouldn't be 10 admitted?
Il CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
I think that we 12 would have to take a hard look at that.
/
13 MR. HALLIGAN:
You will prefer the 14 complete verbatim testimony?
15 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
But we must insist 16 on the testimony in advance.
17 MR. HALLIGAN:
I want that clarification, 18 Now, we believe that The Citizens do believe that the 19 Environmental question should be conducted first as of 20 the intent of this Licensing Board for two and a half 21 years.
That was the thrust of the whole program of 22 scheduling and everything else up_to' yesterday afternoon, 23 that was our understanding and we will still--we will 24 strongly urge that Environmental questions are to come 25 first and all be conducted on a schedule of 3' days a week s
(
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BOX 123. OLD FORGE. P A. 18518.(717) 457 4883 457 0831
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2 We supp' ort such a~ schedule Tuesday,
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3 Wednesday,. : and>;Thur sday.. sched'ule
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each-week whenever J
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And, we.would~
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5 want the Environmental, issues' and Contentions' haridled
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collect--together.
And then later, the Health and 7
Safety issues-because as you wisely pointed out, there.
i 8
still may be one or more new Contentions on the Sa'fety 9
issues.,Quite likely, there-will.be and there. is this 10 discovery process and so-on and even though it has been 11 expedited orttelescoped, so ' to speak ~, it will still cause
!12 some time conflicts,.perhaps.
So, we would support the
'13 Environmental' issues first, exclusively; which was: our 14 understanding allalong as was the other parties, I 15 believe.
16.
There'may be'one-or two other items in.
17 here.
18 CHAIRMAN ~GLEASON:~
Well, we can get back
'l 19 to you.
20' MR.,HALLIGAN:
.-Yes, this is the basic 21 thing.
.So, in. conclusion, the main point is that I-1 22 would ask the NRC and the-Commonwealth.of Pennsylvania 23 and the. distinguished Attorne'y for the Pennsylvania
- 24 Power and Light Company'and Allegheny Electric to 25 perhaps not be overbearing.'upon.the Intervenors.
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BOX 123 - OLD FORGE. PA. 18S18 = (717) 457 4483 457-8811
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examine.
We wd.11 attempt to comply in'every'way with 6'
the rules because they are' simplified to some degree.
'I 7'
mean, thus far,'we.are noticoncerned with_anything but-8 I can assure-the other parties that if-there is any F
9-other discovery, it will'be concise.
10 Hopefully,'that willibe the way they.
11 will. -deal in any, futiure communication about interroga-112.
tories.
13' CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Let me just mane one I.
14 general ~ observation,Mr. Italligan.
In connection.with 15 your remarks of the pro se status of the Intervenors, i
i 16 all of them are preparing, cin/ fact,: witnout Counsel.
~
17 It does s.eem to me,that it isimore in your interest
[
18-.
than in:anyone else's for these rules to be looked at.
I 19 carefully--the Contentions looked at entremely carefully, l
20 and.the testimony provided because that can help people l
notLfamiliar with complicated-Court procedure to 21 l
22 concentrate and focus their attention-a lot easier.than'-
I.
I 23 if' things are just let go the way their normal course j
l 24 could take place.
25 So, the Board will be mindful of your
!O G ai G R EPbRTIN G AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123 - OLD FORGE. P A. 18518 (7I7) 487 4463 457-8891 i
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will gett ih,to di'scu.ssion..-with:this before we conclude--
3 I would hopeg;that,and what we are going toldo--I think
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3 I. announcdd it---w'e ' a're goin'g to -liave - a meeting 'on it
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5 to try to schedtile' a meetirig'.'ont the lith of - August as 6
a' continuation of this Pre IIearing ' Conference to 7
finalize the w'ork of the Conference.
8
~ Well, it. is August the ll'th and I would-9 hope that,.and I am mentioning it now; so'that-you can 10 consider it and discus's it perhaps dur.ing recess. period, 11 on the'10th
'f August that you and part.ies of -the 4
12 Intervenors might meet together with the Applicant 13 and'the Staff to go over part of that session, the
- s
~
14 Contentions _again, and to go over..and perhaps;there f
15 might be some Safety Contentions at that point that i.
16 will not,be tied.up with any. additional documents.
That 17 could be lined up for a continuation of the hearing, 18 but in any event, think about it.
19 MR. II ALLIGAN :
'In other words, you are.
20 saying there will be another Pre IIearing. Conference on i
21 the lith?
22 CII AIRMAN GLI: ASON :
That is~right.
This 23
-Pre IIearing Conf erence, as-we get.through today,.as.I j
'24 announced y'esterday, it..will'be recessed-until the 25 lith.
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Now, what is on the
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On'the loth, I am 3
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4 hoping, there,Lis' 'no 'obiigatilo'n-' that perhaps you and r~3.
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other Intervenors. agree.to,meekwith the Applicant and'
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31 L.i t,
c Staff to go over the Contentions so that when we meet 7
on the lith we could finalize; and also,'at that time, 8
perhaps,'we can discuss whether there are any other' 9
Safety Contentions that would not be. subject to any 10 additional modification and that therefore would be 11 eligible to be put on a list to go~to trial.
12 MR. IIALLIG AN :
So, we will ascertain, and 13 I think this State the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 14 had some interest in a meeting on the same date--the 15 10th, so perhaps, I will raise that when'they: speak.-
16 One other-thing, The Citizens do not
' 17-support or, would in fact, be opposed to'the change ~ of' 18 the 45 days prior to.the start of thechearings for 19 submission of summary disposition.- We feel that-it: is--
20
.CllAIRMAN' GLEASON :
No, thatais already 21.
ruled.
22
.MR.
II ALLIG AN :
You;have' ruled- -
23 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
No, it~will'not st'p o
24' the ruling.
It is a Commission ruling.
25 MR. IIALLIG AN :-
Oh.
G &'G R E PORTIN G AGENCY. INC.. P.O. ' B O X 123.OLD FORGE. PA. ISSIS (717) 457-4483 487.est t I
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CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
They-have eliminated 2
the 45 dai requi'rement an'd s'o?th'at'anybody can fileLit
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at) anytime.':'bThe;only,. authority'the' Board has is'to 3
4 make sure th'at"it?do5s in[otNIinler'f are :with ' the carrying.
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Am I correct?
-7 MR. SILBERG:.
Yes, sir.
t 8
. M R.' CUTCIIIN :
Yes.
1 i
9 lC'HAIRMAN"GLEASON:
And therafbra, what 10 I--want to say--look everybody, let's get at-them as:
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+
11 quickly as possible, because the earlier that we, can get'
. 12 those~ in, the better-is.'for.all tlie-parties and
- 13. '
certainly the Board,that has to rule on it.
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14 MR. HALLIGAN:
Well, on that-matter 15 on summary disposition,fthe NRC Staff has' indicated-1 j
16-in each,(virtually, everyone-of their statementsithat, 17 -
on the record. dealing with summary dispositions pointed proposed the Contentions.
18 out,that"the-Intervenor that had 19 are under'no obligations to respodd.
20 The: burden of-proofIis entirely upon' the =
21 party,inamely,'the Applicants:in trVing-tc dismiss the l
.22 Contention claim that there is no individual, aid or i
23 genuine--issue of controversy and by_-any Intervenor not
~
24 responding that it should not--be construed.otherwise.
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I back to the other Pre Hearing Conferenca, that the issue 2
is clearly, defined.and that there was a controversy.and there 'was, genuine'issEEs,to be resolved at the 3
that 4
hearing.
,Wedpd.not in a,n,y ins,tance, file Affidavits J felE<that the> issue >was there and that the.
5 because we 1
6 ; Board would-see that on4 its'NUrits and the fact that I
7 they are filing those summary dispositions.
8 We feel in some instances it is out of 9
order in one or two cases.
Perhaps it was justified, 10 but we just want to mention that for the record that 11 there is no regulation said that we have to file any 12 Affidavit and on that matter, too, as far as submitting
(%
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13 direct testimony, we noticed that the Applicant and 14 NRC Staff filed Affidavits supporting their position on 15 summary disposition which more or less is like' direct 16 testimony of sort.
17 Now, at the hearing, itself, can we get 18 Affidavits from experts'as'they did?
People from 19 Californit, Tennessee, Florida, and wherever else they i
20 got their experts to submit this information because l
21 in other words, in addition to a witness--
l 22 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Let me clarify--
23 MR. HALLIGAN:
What is the process for l
24 that?
i i
25 (Whereupon the-morning reporter was i
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LJ G & G R E PO R TI N G AGENCY, IN C.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18518 (717) 457-4883 457-8811 r
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relieved by a second reporter.)
2 CIIAI RMAN GLEASON:
Let me clarify that--
try to clapify thatf,,:!Mr. liaili'ghn[ a 3
little bit.
4 4
'The 'attforneys vith tlie Staff and the
^
'a i
5 l Applicant-would slike,to l add', ' fi)r'st of a.1, with respect i
6 to your remarks onynot having a. obligation-to support s
7 your Contention.
That statement would hrve to be looked 8
at very carefully.
9 MR. II ALLIG AN :
We did, in fact, reply, 10 but others didn't.
Il CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
Well, what the rules 12 contemplated and, of course, what the rules of similar m
13 procedure contemplated, is that we not have spurious 14 issues tried in a hearing ~and. in order to evaluate l whether a issue is'a general or spurious, that is tested 15 l
16 by means of a' notion, by means of summary-disposition.
17 And the Affidavit, in effect, is a 18 showing that there are witnesses that will testify in 19 this issue you know, doesn't really e::ist.
20 And then the burden goes over to the 21 person that has raised the Contention or has not 22 responded to the interrogatory, and he will really, at 23 the risk of being--of having the Contention dismissed, 24 did not respond to that point, or did not submit 25 Affidavits.
v.
G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. P A.
18S18.(717) 457 4883 457-8811
_ _ _ - _. _ _ - _ _ - - - _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. _. _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _. _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - - _ - _ - - - - - - _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ - _ _ _. _ - - - - _ _ _ _ _ - - _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ _ _ - _ ~
863.
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Th're-are, of course, cases of interpreta--
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3 is constri*e'd: in { you,rt 'f avor, < or; con"strued against.the
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person raising'ths k,otion for-s6mmary disposition.
5
'T ;il atih, youj really Sun a risk.in thiscwhole y ;'
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- 6 test is whether there is a genuine issu'e or'a material 7
3 t
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to a genuine issue.-
Well then, of 4
8 course, the Contentioncgoes.out and,"'-you see what;the restricted t oii's{j ust _j udging -it on the basis of 9
Board is F
10 what is before.
11 We're going to get into a little bit of 12 discussion on this when.we get into discussion of the Chlorine issue later on.
14 MR. HALLIGAN:
Just-a Jfinal objection.
15 In addition to not-being represented:by attorneys,.the
.16 Counsel at the' hearing should keep in mind that the 17 purpose of the public hearings", and one of the main-i
(
18 purposes, is to obtain a most compl~ete. record, and we l'
19 represent the public.
20 We represent officially, legally, the 21 public interest.
And we feel that no doubts should be 22 left in the minds of the_ Licensing' Board. Panel' prior to
+
23 making the jugements about-the health.and safety of 24 this Reactor complex.
-25
.And we feelLthat summary disposition;is G & G R E PO RTIN G AGENCY. INC = P.O.' BOX 123. OLD FORGE. PA. 10518. (717) 457 4683 457 8891
4 864..
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I an imposition and it, more or less, restricts the 2
completeness of the record.
So we would oppose the, 1.
d 3
We feelLthat t.he Applicants are yourknow, f this. 3
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6
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bet Iin their testimony.
And.
I, 7
substantive ', tlia't >will c5m'e t
we feel that the public interest Intervenors sh'ould-be 8
9 heard at the hearing.-
It would be different if=there 10 were 40 or. -5 0 intervening groups', but you.are just 11 talking about'4~small ad hoc groups ~.
4 12
-CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Yes.
A 13 MR. HALLIGAN:
-So, put that into-14 perspective.
15 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Let's go on.
~l6 MR. HALLIGANi Yes.
17 CHAIRMAN'GLEASON:
Miss Marsh, we are.
18:
very happy to see you.
- We were ready to send'a 19 searching party out for'you.
20 Where are;you" located?
21 MRS. MARSH:
Right in Angola.
22 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Somebody told me you 23 are close.
24 I do'want to.get back with a couple of' t
25 things we'.ve gone over yesterday, get your reponses to g
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2 Ilow does this outline of procedures t
3 strike.you?
Is that satisfactory te you that I outlined,
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4 as 8)>.*. ; ?:; j ;
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"I like.the ideas of 30 l days rathe - Sh'an. 60{ days I' l
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CII AI,R, MAN GLEASOti:.
All right.
And the 7
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v 8-date of the hearing, October 6th, Environmental issues 9-first?
10 MRS. MARS!!:
That-sounds--that's okay f
11 with me.
1 5
12 CI! AIRMAN GLEASON:
All right.
Well, you p
~
V 13 see no real proble'ms in connection with.the procedure i
14 of--at least' outlined--at least at this point.
l 15 Would you be able, hopefully,.to parti-16 cipate in this session as well?
I'd better not ask-17 that question because we're going to go for the' session j
18 August 11, but I would hope that.during recess there i
i, might be some discussion on people'getting together 19 20 on the 10th to bring these things up-to-date and perhaps 21 you'd be able to participate.
j
- 22
- I'm sorry, I didn't get your name yet, 23 or'I should have listened carefully..
24 MS. ZITZER:
Phylis,Zitzer, and I am 25 Co-Director of the Coalition of Environmental Power.
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How do you spell I
2 ! that?
3 MS. ZITZER:
Z-I-T-Z-E-R.
CHAIRMANI,GLEASON!
And you are co-4
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director?
6 l
b MS) ZITZER:,;Of"ECNP.
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7 I wou'ld like to make a few brief comments.
1 8
We would go along with supporting the 30-day time period
'9 in advance of hearings for identification of witne9aes.
I 10 ' I'd like to point out that if you were to adopt the 11 policy of 60 days that would be approximately something 12 like August 7, which is just_over a week away--two weeks, Il k'
13 And, in particular, for those parties that have Safety 14 Contentions in view of the fact that we c : still 15 awaiting t ie second supplement, which wouldn't even be 16 out by that time, I think that the 60-day period would 17 be difficult, if not impossible to meet that requirement.
18 So that, we would certainly. support, particularly in 19 consideration of those parties that do still have Safety 20 Contentions, we would support the 30-day time period 21 for identification of witnesses and also support the 1
I 22 21-day time period hearing for the filing of direct 23 testimony.
24 Also, I think it is important to keep in 25 mind whensrayoa are making your decision regarding 30 7
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BOX 123.OLD FORGE. PA. ISSIO. (717) 457 4683 457-8881
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or 60 days that there are still many outstanding motions a
to dismiss, many of the Contentions, so: that presently, 3
even the number of Contentions is likely to be greatly
! limited when we really get down.to the hearing.
So 4
4 a
on behalf,of ECNP[,we don't feel.that is an extreme 5
i 6 l burden on the Applicants or the Staff to deal with i
7 that 30-day time period, and'we'certainly would support 8
that.
9 I have some comments regarding the 10 locations of the hearings and some other things that I 11 think might be appropriate at.another time.
12 I would like to propose that you consider
,,(-)
13 holding possibly the hearings on direct testimony 14 dealing with Emergency Planning in the vicinity of the 15 plant.
I think there might be som direct benefit to 16 the communities that would have to live with the Berwick 17 facility, to be'able to have more access to the hearing 18 than they might if it were here in Wilkes-Barre again.
19 I think that might be out of order at 20 this time.
I'd like to come back to that.later on.
21 I think that's primarily--
22 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Okay.
Thank you Mrs.
23 Zitzer.
24 Could'you transfer that mike over to 25 the State, please?
7y G & G REPORTING AGENCY. I NC.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE, PA. 18S18.(717) 457 4883 437 8811
868.
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MR. ADLER:
Thank you.
2 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Senator--
3 MR. ADLER:
The State agrees with the l
d schedule and the procedures set by the Board and we
- ]will compiy with them.
Ee,would' simply request that 5
the 6
idate for' filing Safety testimony be set as soon as 7
possible sofwe can h' ave a'date that is certain to i
8 shoot for.
9 I have one question 'incerning rebuttal 10 testimony; whether the Board envisions any sort of Il schedule or notice requirements for that?
12 MR. SILBERG:
Mr. Chairman--
13 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Yes, I meant to say 14 something and I didn't.
15 Yes, go ahead.
16 MR. SILDERG:
If I can make a comment 17 on rebuttal, and then I'd also like to make another 18 remark about the 30 or 60 days.
19 In terms of rebuttal, the only party 20 that's entitled to rebuttal in NRC proceedings is the 21 Applicant.
The Appeal Board held that in the Three 22 Mile Island Radon Hearings, the Three Mile Island, which 23 involved the Environmental Coalition On Nuclear Power 24 as the party challenging--by the way held that that 25 rebuttal testimony could be delivered orally, and need s
j G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. P A.
19518.(717) 457 4883 457-8611 r
I 869.
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1 not be submitted in advance in writing.
2 Obviously to the extent that there is 3
rebuttal testimony that can be prepared in advance, 4
and submitted.in writing, our practice has been to do
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5 that and that is, or course, one of the great advanta'ges-r.
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10 With respect to the 60--30 or.60 day 11 question, that'date!was set in Discovery Memo 2, which' 12 was issued in October 30, 1978--1979.
It was issued i
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U 13 in the contention of the lack of responses to Applicant's 14 and Staff's disc ~overy on page 20 of the slip' opinion'.-
15 CIIAIRMAN -GLEASON :
I stand corrected 16 unles's you want to continue with-tha't.
17 MR. SILBERG:
.No,.I~just want to point' 18 out it'was issued in the Contention of Applicants' 19 and Staff not having the benefit of interrogatory 4
20 responses from the'Intervenors.
That' paragraph' started 21 out by saying, " Responses-to discovery requests shall q
22 be updated as required by' Commission' rules."
4 23 Then it went onto say each party shall.
i 24-identify the testimony, witnesses, et cetera, 60 days 25 in advance and shall--also the documents did intend.to G & G R E POR TIN G AGENCY. INC.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 1888 8. (717) 437 4403 437-4841 i
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I imply in it's clear case.
And-I think the clear purpose i
2 of that Order by the Board, at the_ time, was to,~in a 3
way, substitute for the actions of discovery responses 4
that had been supplied..to Applicants and to mitigate
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'giving as'muchfadva.nce notice as. possible as to who l[ ;.
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l 11 not have a very-good idea, although perhaps.not,100%
12 sure as to who its witnesses were going'to.be 13 a.ignificantly before" 21 d'ays in advance.
e 14 If a witness obviously turns up at.the i
15 last minute, that can.be dealt with, however,.if the 16 party is reasonably
- sure it is going 1to be presenting i
17 a witness on a particular Contention, I don't see'any~
l 18 great burden in telling the other parties about that 19 significantly ahead of timp.
20 If th'is turns out that witnesses' don't 21 show up.or can't be made'available, there is very little 22 that's been lost.
On the other hand, if witnesses 23 identity is not made.known at an early date,-there.iis signific' ant'los't to.the parties in their ability't'o 24 a
25 prepare adequately.for. cross-examination and preparation G & G REPORTING AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123.OLD FORGE 1 PA. I8518 = bl7) 457-4883 457-8811 -
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1-by Applicants of rebuttal testimony.
1 2
CII AI RMAN. G LE A' SON : -
Well, I will come 3
back to your comments.later.
Le't's go'b'ack't'o the 4
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4 State.'
5 MR. ADLER:.
'Getting back to.the p'oint on rebuttal: testimony,;tustimony..willebe' filed'21' days
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see any burden on the Applicants..to give notice to the; 12 party prior to the hearing of.what contentions they 13 have in the way of rebuttal.and_this would enable all 14 of the parties time'to prepare for' cross-examination on.
15 that rebuttal testimony.
t 16 MR. SILBERG:'
We would have no problem 17 with that to the extent that vs don't know what rebuttal i
18
. is going to be to the extent we haven't had'an opportunity.
-19 to see early enough what the' direct testimony;is that 20 we might have.to rebutt, 'o r, -;.more.lik ely, what
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21-information comes forth pn cross-examination.thatiwe 22 may want to,putLin additional testimony.
~23 Obviously, we can't-let, vou,know,
- 24 something,we don't know-about--
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- 25 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
I think--
LO G & G R E PORTIN G AGE NCY,. INC. - P.O.
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1 MR.-ADLER:
That's certainly true for 2
cross-examination, but'with' respect to direct testimony i
3 you receive 21 days ~ prior.to.the hearing.. I would'see
'4 no burden to say one week prior.to the hearing, two l
5 weeks after receipt o'f the direct testimony to'give 4
6 notice to the parties of what~ rebuttal Applicants intend
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We would certainly do our
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10' of service, n,otuthe dat.e-of> receipt, So we would not~
f y:3 11 be getting.that testimony for some period ofTtime after 1
12 the 21 days unfortunately..
13 We would then have to turn around and' 14 get that testimony to-our witnesses, who would have 15 to look at it.
We might not have very much time to 16 turn around and say, '7 days, what might-be a week, after l
17 -
the witness gets.the-testimony.
What kind of-rebuttal--
18 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Why don't we-leave
)
19 it like this.
I think it is'a very valid point that
-20 you are raising, but I~can also see that is difficult 21 in the stream of things going 1back and forth to put 22 down a precise'date at this timei, 23
.The Applicant has indicated that he will u
24 provide the rebuttal testimony as. rapidly as..he can.
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25 The Board will make sure that no witnesses.or no parties O.
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BOX 123-ULD FORGE. P A.
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I are surprised by that' testimony, and if it comes in at 2
a time when they have not.had a chance to prepare, 3
we will just put some time in the hearing to allow 4
them a chance to develop their cross-examination--their 5
testimony.
6 i So, it is in the Applicant's interest i ti n a s, 'q u i c k l y,la s 7
to get po'ssible.
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MR.' 'SILDERG:
I would on the subject
~
of rebuttal, a,lth'ough,,sugg.es,t.t, hat we--we are properly.
9
.,,,o 10 bound by the Appeal poard's rules-as' laid down in the-y
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11 Three Mile Island Radon Deceision.
12 I have not reviewed'that decision v.
13 recently, but I was there at the hearing and I recall ~
14 specifically directions of the Appeal. Board because 15 at that time we did try to work out1a= propose for 16 serving rebuttal testimony in advance.. The Environmental 17 Coalition On Nuclear Po'wer rejecthd th'at suggestion,
-18 and in light of thi. rejection, the Appeal Boardosaid,.
19 thought Applicants were trying.to accommodate you,and we 20 shce you are rejecting that,we will go to.the formal 21' rule which is that rebuttal' testimony can be delivered-22 orallycat the' time of hearing.
23' But as I said, weJwould~do-our best to.
24 let everybody know.what we're goina to' do.
The object 25 of the hearing is not to'surprice anybody but'to get a
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record which is addressed to the Contentions and to 2 l let everyone have their fair shot at that record.
l l
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
I have not read the 3
l, decision and will.
.It is my--it is a question that.I--
4 i
lI would ask was the Appeal Board ruling 'only applicable 5
6
!at that particular case, or was it a general ruling.
7
- MR.
SILBERG: - No,, sir.
My recollection
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8 is that it was.a generalEruling on "The Procedures For 9
9ebuttal Testimony in NEC+IIearings."
10 CII AI RMA'Il GL kSb i' All right.
2
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11
'MR? JII ALLIGAli :
'Mr.
Chairman, I have a 12 comment on this.
l"'
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13 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Well, let's wait.
14 MR. ADLER:
I just have two more 15 comments.
16 First with respect to the August 10 17 meeting referred to by Mr. Italligan.
We, in fact, 18 tentatively scheduled a meeting for that date, but it 19 was for the very purpose suggested by the Board with 20 respect to Contention 6 and 20; so we see no inconsistency.
21 We can combine that into one meeting on all Contentions.
22 My last comment on scheduling refers 23 to Emergency Planning.
Since Emergency Planning is 24 an ongoing process, the plans are being revised now, 25 and maybe later on in the hearing based on the review em G & G R E P O R TIN G AGENCY, I NC.. P.O. BOX 123-OLD FORGE. PA. 18S18 = (717) 457 4883 457-8811
s 875.
I I ! of the Federal Management Agency.
We would suggest'that i
2 the Emergency Planning Contentions both 6 and 20 be 3 l heard as late as possible in the proceeding.
4 We found during the TMI Restart Pro-5 i ceeding that it was most efficient to litigate the 1
6 Emergency Planning issues as late as possible in the
! planning and preparedness process 7
so as not to require I
recalling of witnesses andlso fobth.
8
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MR. SILBERG:
We have no objection-to
'2 10 that.
- 1
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11 (CHAIRMAN, ~G LE ASON ':
Yes.
Yes, I guess 12 from the Board's inprecis e understanding of where those f'1 sJ 13 plans exist at the moment that that's the way it is 14 going to eventually work out, that they will be the 15 last Contentions coming before us.
is thnt right?
i f
16 ' But I appreciate your bringing that to our attention.
17 All right.
Mr. Halligan.
18 MR. HALLIGAN:
We would object to the 19 previous speaker's recommendation about dealing with the 20 Number 20 and Number 6 as late as possible.
I would ask 21 you to hold us in obeyance until we meet with them on 22 ' the 10th and they spell this out in some detail.
23 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
I think that it is 24 in your interest what the State is recommending here, 25 and because we want to make sure the plans are in, the G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY, I N C. - P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18S18 (717) 4574 683 457-8811
876.
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people's review is in, the Staff's review of FEMA's 2
review is in, Applicant's review is in, and that's what 3
we're saying that that is dragging at the moment, and 4
]so we were going to, if you want--and of course those
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5 are areas that the Board has a great interest in.
6 Also, I am saying well, we don't have t
il 7 i to say, you can decide that when we get together.
8
. i!,. ' tUI.',HALLIG AN :
On, ' th e rebuttal, I would s.
1 9
refer to.the'documenf I cited be~ fore, The Statement 10 of Policy On Conduct, on, ahe'B,there is a--this is the guidelines, Item.I.g it spys, " Combining rebuttal and 11 12 surrebuttal testimony.'
h-'
13 So, apparently the Applicants are saying 14 that only rebuttal from the--from their side is allowed.
15 What is surrebuttal and isn't that allowable?
16 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
I--
17 MR. HALLIGAN:
Would you analyze that?
18 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Have you read this?
19 MR. SILBERG:
Not recent /.
20 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
It says that for 21 particular highly technical issues, Boards are encouraged 22 during rebuttal and surrebuttal to put opposing witnesses 23 on the stand at the same time so each witness will be 24 able to accommodate an opposing witness' ans,.ers to the 25 questions.
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G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY, INC.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD FORGE. P A. 18518.(717) 457-4643 457 8811 u.
877.
I They are talking about cross-examination, 2
surrebuttal testimony.
3 MR. SILBERG:
I think what that indicates 4
--all that is to be done on a oral basis as opposed to 5
prefiled rebuttal or surrebuttal testimony.
6 MR. II ALLIG AN :
It cites the regulation 7
that explicitly recognizes they are your right to act 8
on this matte'r.
)
9
' ' 5-CIIAIRMAN' GL'E A' ON : - All right.
Well S
apprecia,te 'your bringin6 !it; to.our attention.
~
10 I
1 eo 11 MR. IIALLIG AN :
I believe that's important.
1, 4
~
12
'Does'any of tha pertain to the
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13 Intervenors?
Are we involved in anyway with rebuttal?
i 14 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Well, according to 15 the Applicants Counsel's reference to tS. Board of.
16 Appeals Rulings in the Three Mile Island case, you were on*
17
--as I indicated I have.not had a chance to read that.
l 18 Can you enlighten us?
19 MR. CUTCIIIN :
Nor have I read that Mr.
l 20 Chairman.:
I have these rulings on the abstraction of l
21 evidence as the Board.has pointed out before is very l
l 22 difficult to do.
23 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
It is, and we will 21 say we will look at this and give you some information 25 on it on the lith.
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G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. I N C.
- P.O.
BOX 123-OLD FORGE. PA. 18518 = (717) 4574883 457-8811 i
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1 MR. IIALLIGAN :
.Thank you.
2
~ MR.. CUTCIIIN :
I would like to say one 3
thing--
l 4
CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
Go ahead Mr. Cutchin.
5 MR. CUTCIIIN :
I-would rer.pectfully urge 6
Ithe-Board rather than leaving this meeting of parties 7
to discuss-the order in which Contentions can be taken 8
up, rather than leaving it on a voluntary basisi the n ;,
s 9 s;
.>;4 1
9 Board directs"the p"artins to do;so.
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CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
I think you'are right.
'%,r/n :iAnd indicate!that.they are j
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12 expected to go make,a good, faith effort because I think (N;*i.>
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4 14 CIIAI RMA'N GLEASON:
That is a good 15' suggestion.
I will announce it that way before we are 16 through today.
17
.MR.,SILBERG:
Mr.. Chairman--
18~
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
.Yes.
19 '
.MR.
SILBERG:
I think we have tried^
i 20 to reconstruct what that Board Appeal IIearing was 2
and'that 21 issued and we think it is January,1980,1 l
22 it is a reported Order..
J 23
-It-is in the donsolidated radon cases. no n
24 that the docket may not be Metropolitan Electric or 25 Consolidated Edison and it may be Philadelphia Electric.
l I
o a o neronrisa aarney, inc.. e.o. sor ins oto renas. ca. insis <rir> 4 7
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879.
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. (.)
I CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Well, I'll get that 2
actual citation.
We appreciate having it.
3 Let's see.
I want to comment on something 4 lthat you said before, but I've forgotten it.
What_were 5
you talking about before, Mr. Silberg, when the State--
6 MR. SILBERG:
You are referring to the 1
7 1
or 60 days?
l30 8
CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
When you were talking the;Sta't,e'sfe,ase y~ou went'into rebuttal and then 9
about s.
10 something else.
i l
11 MR. SILBERG:~
'Yes, I think I was talking 12 about the Order that estab'lished^ the 60 day advance 13 notice or advanc identif'ication of witnesses.
14 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
And there was another 15 thing.
16 MR. HALLIGAN:
He is mistaken on that 17 l in citing the Order, but the 60 days was a punitive 18 l directive and what it did, in fact, it dealt with 19 certain Contentions primarily where the interrogatories 20 were not submitted to the Applicants when they were 21 asking for over 2,000 answers and those Contentions have 22 either been laid to rest or--or the parties have been 23 denied the right to testify un those direct cases.
So, 24 that's a moot quenn on in a way.
25 Sixty days was put there because of k_)
G a G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. INC. P.O. BOX 123-OLD FORGE. PA. 185l8 -(717) 457 4883 457-8811
880.
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noncompliance.
Since that time there was extended time 2
given for the final directors to-file interrogatories 3
which we, in fact, did comply with.
So, it is really 4
a moot question about the 60 days.
We all--I think all 4
5 the Intervenors, and the Commonwealth would ask that 6
!you would hold up your original directive of 30 days 7
for identification of the witnesses, et cetera.
8 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
All right.
If we 9
could take a few minutes, I think that concludes any
, discussion'withvr'eshect.t o )hhe'hMa'ing schedule and we'll 10 r
s
<)
11 come back on this before we're through on this; to i;
12 reiterate it'againithis? meeting on the i
/-
llth of August.
(3/
13 If we could takela;few minutes to discuss the site visit.
14
.It has always been, at least the Boards or the cases 15 that I have served on in the past, and I'm sure that 16 it applies to most cases, that we have always found it 17 helpful to visit the facility prior to the hearing or i
18 at least sometime during the hearing.
19 And, of course, when the Board does that, l
20 all the parties would be invited to participate at the 21 same time.
l-l 22 Does the-Applicant have a suggestion on 23 that?
It should be done as early before the--it seems 24 to me as early before the hearing and not during the 25 hearing if possible.
s
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i G & O REPORTING AGENCY. IN C.. P.O. BOX '23 0LD FORGE. PA. 18518. (717) 457 4483 447-8811 d
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1 MR. SILBERG:
We are available at your I
2 schedule, at your convenience.
3 We need some' advance notice, about a week 4
would be appropriate..One pos'sibility would be to have S'
it the day before the start of the first day of the
~
6 hearing, or any other time at the Board's convenience.-
3 7 !
CilAIRMAN GLEASON:
What has. been d
i 8
suggested by the. members of the Board is perhaps it-
'9 might be feasible to do it in connection 5dithout coming, 2
e_.r is -,
10 together on the:11th:of August to,do it the following t
1,
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day or thdt[lif$erno^on b,~so.'
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12
.cWouldcthat;be, inconvenient?
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That.will be fine with 13.
,;. MR.. SILD, ERG:
'w.
4 14 us.
i 15 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
All right.
Why dont 16 we:at'least discuss it,-talk'to each other dbring the.
j 17 recess.
In a few minutes._
j 18 Is that all right with the Staff?
19 MR. CUTCIIIN :
It is fine with the Staff.
I 20 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Now, place of hearing.
21 What comments do you have?
- 22 MR. SILBERG:
- Really.anytelace that's i
23 convenient to the Board.
I guess our problems.with 24 the Federal Courthouse have been that I don't think we 25 would be guaranteed to have a large Courtroom,3 days a G &G R E PO RTIN G AGENCY. I N C.. P.O. BOX 123. CLO FORGE. PA. 18518. '717) 457 4f as 457 ** a 1
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week, and I think it would be very inconvenient to have 2
to shuffle around to different ocurtrooms.
3 There are other facilities here in 4
Wilkes-Barre which I'm sure would be obtainable.
We 5
are staying at the Sheraton Hotel on the Square, and I 6
ldo know that they have suitable rooms too This room, 7
aside from-the tinkling of the chandeliers,. I would 8
think it would be useful to have a room that we know 9
we would be in all the time.
- CHAIRMANcGLEASON: '3All the time.
10 l
i 11 MR. CUTCII'IN :
That's satisfactory with i
12 us.
l 13 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Mr. Halligan?
a 14 MR.'HALLIGAN:
Mr. Chairman, the 15 Citizens Against Nuclear Danger would recommend if a 16 facility being obtained at Wilkes College in Wilkes-Barre 17 Pennsylvania because for the hearings there are 18 ' facilities on campus for reproduction of documents, 19 probably communication hook ups, and so on.
20 They do provide public service facilities 21 for important issues and I would suggest--
22 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Where is that 23 located?
24 MR. If ALLIGAN :
It is just on the other 25 side of'the center of town here.
It is right on the main 73 V
G & G REPORTING AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. P A.
18518.(787) 457 4683 457 8811
.+.
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1 883.
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l thoroughfare in downtown.
I 2l CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Within the City limits?
t j
3 !
MR. IIALLIG AN :
Right-along.
the 4
l
'4 Susquehanna River in fact..
It is a very modern campus 5
and very large university,.and they have all. sorts of l
6 ! facilities to accco:)modate people who would like to como 1
I
-7 in, news media and others.
8 I don't know.what their policy is, but 9-it would be our nomination the Wilkes College in Wilkes-1 10 Barre, Pa.
They have meeting rooms and a auditorium 7;
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11 in fact.
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12 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
Mrs. Marsh', do you r'
, t.
anyfeelings-abo,utihp,,s'ItE?
13 have l
I 14 MRS.*MARSil:{ ;That would be fine.,That s
+
1 15 sounds very good.
16 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
~ The College?
17 MR. SILBERG:
Mr. Chairman--
18 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON.
Let me finish, then 19 we will come back.
20 Ms. Zitzer?
21 MS. ZITZER:
Dr. Johnsrud-h'ad also' asked I
22 to recommend Wilkas College as,a place.
It seems that~
23 here-in'Wilkes-Barre for the bulk of the hearings-it 24 seems to be best suited for everyone, particularly 25 because the public documents room, being. located'here
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in Wilkes-Barre, it seems to make the information more 2
accessible to the Intervenors.
l liowever,.I think it certainly is 3
4 important, in my mind, to hold some part of the pro-1 5
ceedings, if possible, closer to the facility of the 6
- plant.
Certainly I hope you would consider holding 7
the limited appearance hearing, some of them, in the 8
Berwick area and possibly--
9 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Why do you believe 10
- that's helpf'il?
MS.. ZITZER:'I.Becau e I think many of 11
?
12, the people Sho have thincj s t6 say are people who live f3 l
3 O
13 directly in'the'vicinith 6f.5,the piant, local officials 14 that will be involved, particularly in Emergency 4
15 Planning Procedure.
16 I think that many of those people are more likely to come and voice their concerns, which I 17 18 think is a contradiction to the proceeding--
19 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Oh, yes.
Yes, it is.
20 MS. ZITZER:
--As well as to everyone's 21 benefit.
22 And I think to schedule those hearings, 23 hopefully in the evenings, and on Saturday, if possible 24 so--
25 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Is there a facility
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l G & G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. I N C.. P.O. BOK 123.OLD FORGE. PA. 18518.(717) 457-4683 4574811
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accommodated?
I close to the plant.that could,be l
2 MR. SILBERG:
The Town of Berwick and i
3 l
there is a high school there, there have been'on prior 4'
occasions hearings in the high school auditorium.
Construction Ilearing was held there.
l i
. 5 6
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Is that right?
7 MR. HALLIGAN:
I'm not making this my; f
nomination, but there is the PP&L Information Center ~
8 h
9 which has an auditorium'and the' complete record there'.
10 IOther people may want to boycott the place, I don't i
know, that's not' my Iintd$tt,6utltEere probably ar'e a i
11
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m 1
m 12 number of' places.'
o. But,' '.we iwould t' conc ur,. as a spokesman 13 4,.
- %g I4 for the petitioners from the
' Salem Township in Berwick,.
7
( - r i
area, certainly the limited aphearances certainly some 15 f.
16 of it should be obtdined in that area.
C.'Ir petitioners 4
are from that' area.
l 18 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Right.
I9 MS. ZITZER:
My suggestion on the 20 limited Appear'ance Hearings would be that you hold.
21 them not in any one. place,- but.that you try'and hold l.
22 them in rotating places in the vicinity.
23 i
CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
I don't think we l
24 couldLhold them all in one day anyway.
l
. 25 MS, Z I'l Z E R :
Right.
For everyone's G eG R E PO R TIN G AG E N CY. ' IN C.. P.O. BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18518 e (717) 457 4883 487 8811 f
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2 Cl! AIRMAN GLEASON:
You are saying to 3
hold them as close to where people live as possible?-
j 4
I.
MS. ZITZER:
Certainly have some of 5-them in the area of the plant, but not all in one place 6
so that people who might not be able to come to one 7
location. could come to another.
8 I would like to encourage the Board to 1
4 t
9 consider if it is possible'to hold the Evidenciary p
10 111 earings on Emergency Planning closer to the vicinity
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~
11 of the plant, if there is a-vicinity obtainable, again, l\\ lds"the a l'ocal of fic'ia'Is:
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to everyone 's ' interest /tol have those people as actively i
l 15 involved andl.as ' aware ofllthe?information thet will be 16 presented'in the hearings as possible.
So that I would j
17 aak you'to please consider'that.
18 One more thing j ust regarding the 19 documents.
It'is my, understanding that the. earlier l
20 Board had decided to : keep a -record of those. documents 21
-in-the document room; at the Pette e Room at the i
22 State College Library.
23
'I'm particularly'for our involvement i
24.
in this proceeding, recognizing the great difference l
25 involved in coming to Wilkes-Barre--
O FORGE. PA. 18514 = (717) 457-4481 457-8411 G & G R EPORTIN G AGENCY, INC.. P.O.
BOX 123 - oLD i
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1 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
Where is that 2
located?
3 l MS. ZITZER:
That is at Penn State.
Cl! AIRMAN GLEASON:
Penn State?
4 5
MS. ZITZER:
Yes, and we would just 6
-like to request the transcripts and all documents in the f
7 proceeding do continue to be placed in th-L tibrary 8
particularly so that we will have access to them.
9 C ll A I R M A N GLI; ASON :
Do you know what 10 arrangements have been made in that connection, Mr.
11 Cutchin?
12
,1
' M R.- CUTCIIIN :
We had many discussions CNJ 13 earlier in th's case abou't the inco'nvenience, especially 14 to ECNP, and the' Local PublicLDocuments Room Staff, 15 on its own,, decided.to;make available their copies of 16 transcripts; I believe it is already a depository 17 library which means that they have access to all of l
18 the Government documents that they choose to have and I 19 don't know whether they take all of the documents, but 20 I have no indication that the LPD Staff does not plan l
21 to continue--
22 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Could I ask you, l
23 or ask you to have somebody to recheck to make..sure 24 that was done because I think that is important to have i
25 access to transcripts.
(d i
G & G R E PO RTIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P.O. BOM 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18518.(717) 457-4883 4S7-8859 m
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1 MR. CUTCIIIN :
I'll have to say, as I 1
2 did earlier in the'. proceedings, sir, I'l'l-have to check j
~
t I
3 but that'is a service-that is under'the control of 4
those people, and I believo neither we nor the. Board i
5 can do more than just ask them.
6 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Under control'of who?
7 MR.>s-2 C l!I N :
.Of the-LPD Staff and of i
8 course, local public document -rooms are not required by,
i 9
law or anything' other than admission possibility.'
10 CHAIRMAN /GLEASON:
.I understand that.
l 11 I underst!and that.
.i i
'$.y * ;QMR.iCUTCHni: C I;w.ill'continu'e--I will 12 continue to 'ask.-QIt !k h
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/ > CIIAIRMAN;'GLE ASQN : -
But you will advise i
4
.. - l h e.?, C '; i l' c ( lg ; ll ~..
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1 15 : me.if that has not,been. done?
i m.,
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(si L.'
s i tJTlCUTCIIIN : ~ j; t uI would do so.
L l6 MR.
4
)I 17 MS. ZITZER:
Thank you, sir..
! ow about the State?
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
!I 18
+
19 MR. ADLER:'
The State has no' preference.
20 MR. SILBERG:
Excuse me, Mr. Chairman---
21
' CIIAIRMAN J GLEASON :
Yes.!
22 MR. SILDERG:
Two comments.
I.'have 23 been informed that the auditorium atLthe PP&L-In formatior,
^ the site is probably too_small'for limited 24 Center at O
. 25 appearance statements.
' C'
& G R E PO R TING AGENCY. INC.. P.O. SOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 19818. (75 7) 497 4883 487-Set t J
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%s I'm also informed that there is a 1
2 YMCA in Berwick--which probably would be another suitable l facility in addition to the school.
3 f
In response to the suggestion for using 4
5 Wilkes College, I understand that there may be severe 6
l parking problems at the College while school is in l
7 Isession.
8 I also don't know if we can-have a room
^ 9 in the school on a long-term basis during classes, but 10
,I think because the hearings would be taking place 11 during the time when students were there, that parking 12 may be very difficult.
=<
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13 CHAIRNAN'GLEkSON All right.
Excuse I
14 me.
'(Adiscussion~has_heldoff the record.)
15 16
, -(The discussioW was concluded.)
17 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Someone mentioned, 18 Mr. Purdom, reminded me and I just bring it up without' 19 lindicating, just to get the information really, that 20 there was a facility, an air facility near Naval Air 21 Force near the airport.
22 MR. HALLIGAN:
That's correct.
We 23 would oppose that for very good causes.
24 Mr. Chairman, the parking sitcation in ed center city Wilkes-Barre is no different here at this f-
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'G
& G f* T PO R TIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD FORGE, PA 18518.(717) 457-4883 457-8811 y
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l Ilotel or at the Federal Building where we were yesterday, 1
2 ! or at the Wilkes College.
It is the same vicinity.-
I 3 l Wilkes College is accessible to people.in public l transportation, Wilkes College is accessible to the 4
i 5
handicapped, it is accessible to the general public, 6
within walking distance of the urban area and the 7. residential areas.
8 The facility of the airport is not 9
served by public transportation.
It is not accessible 10 to the people of Wilkes-Barre without an automobile.
11 It is not a appropriate place.
I have testified at i
12 hearings there and it is an echo chamber.
It is a big O) a i
repairshop,reayly;,[fo'r{trscksand things.
It is a
's 13
+
5 14. motor pool, painted white, converted into makeshift e.
15 purposes like, hearings oaccasionally.
i 16 The audio-visual facilities are inadequate n
17 up there, the lighting and sound effects are poor.
It 18 is not appropriate at all.
19 So we would reiterate our desire to use 20 Wilkes College.
First, of course, and foremost, you 21 would have to get permission and, in fact, reserve the 22 space there for the period of time.
f 23 CII AI RMAN GLEASON:
All right. the time l
24 has come for us take a five minute break, 25 (Whereupon at 10:30 a five minute recess i
~
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G eG R E PO R TIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P.O. BOX 123.OLD FORGE. PA. 18518.(717) 457-4883 457-8811 l
1
7 891.
lO
'l-was taken.)
2 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
If we could come back 3
in. session.
d I don't think it is necessary, parti-5 cularly in light of the fact that there will be a con-
~
6 tinuation of this Pre-IIearing Conference on the lith,
)
7 and 12th, is necessary to take Mrs. Marsh back through 7
)
8 what we went through yesterday in connection with her 9
Contentions because she'11 have an opportunity to look
~
10 them over in that period of time and discuss them with-Il the other. parties on the lith, and 12th, and with-the 12 Board on.the 12th.
n' a Contention 13
~' There pis',on'e (Conte' tion,
1;<
.j i.
~
14 13, which'did not'appe'ar, ~thati4 there was a' lot of complication's.Eith,'or.Shere[wasfa lot of substance,
~
I 15 1;~ ' ;
.y 16-but that the_ Board,previo,usly ha,d'not-wanted to consider 4;'
i t, i :
1, 1r f
17 withdrawn until it heard directly.from Mrs.. Marsh, which 18 it wanted to do at this Conference.
19 So Mrs.' Marsh, would'you like to-20 communicate to us about.what'your views are~about that i
21 C'ontention, please?
[
22
'MRS. MARSII :
I've reviewed the papers 23 that they've sent me on: the' motion to withdraw 24-Contention 13, and:I - have signed the' paper here.
I 25 would agree that'it'should be withdrawn..
V R E PO R TIN G Af.:E NCY. I N C.
P.O.
BOX 123 OLD FORGE. P A.
18518.(717) 457-4883 457 8811 G & G r
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Cf! AIRMAN GLEASON:
You would agree that 2
it should be withdrawn.
All right.
Fine.
3 MRS. MARSII :
Yes.
4 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
I don't think it 5 lwould serve any purpose to discuss Contention 10 anymore 6
at this time.
I think that--
7 MR. II ALLIG AN :
Mr. Chairman--
8 Cl! AIRMAN GLEASON:
Yes.
9 MR. II ALLIG AN :
There is a matter on 10
. Contention 10, at brief,' added information since yesterday.
11 What is the status of Contention 10 12 at this point?
fm
(_)
13
. CIIAIRRfAN,GLEASON :
The status.is that, s
l I4,1f I r e c a l l' ;t h e ;B o a r d. t.O r d e r,I that."it did not support 15 the motion to dismiss it at that time.
.' ?
16 The.Intervenor' is obligated under the 17 prior Order [of't'he Board to = designate severa1--
18 MR. CUTCIIIN :
Again.
Just a portion of 19 the beginning just after Criterion.4, which is on page 20 314.
21 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
The structure systems 22 or components--
23 MR. C U T C li 1 N :
It is the paragraph.
24 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
--which are important 25 to Safety, which could be af fected i:by an on-site rail LJ
(
G & G R E PORTIN G AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.' BOX 123.OLD FORGE. PA. 18518.(717) 457-4883 457 8811
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accident prior to the hearing or prior to at some 2
point before it, it would be dismissed.
It says, " Prior 3
to any Hearing on the Contention."
4 In the Order of the Board, I believe, we 5
suggested that one of the reasons it could not be dis-6 ! missed was that.the additional documents had'not been 7
! submitted by the Applicant or by the. Staff, the Safety 8
documents.
9 So, I would~think that we are reasonably 10 talking about Mr. Halligan as soon as--let's see.
The 11 sapplement is in within a reasonable period.after that 12 point in time, the 10-day period,1f you will, that you O
\\>
13 would identify those structures, components or that 14 the Board wild entert'aib tavorably the motion to have 5
E p
+
15 that motion dismissed.
16 MR..HALLIGAN:
Mr. Chairman, we concur 17 with your decision:;t,here.!,We will, in fact, make the 18 objection and comply with that discovery on the day we 19 visit the site.
The Citizens, a small_ delegation, 20 prepare their replies.
That was the basis for their 21 objection to the Contention.
22 There is just one little thing about this 23 that bothers me.
Men the train derailed, on the 24 site, it was br -1 e ror and, as I understand, that 25 some of the pr.,posa.<,
to improve the Safety there have
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but it was panic.
i 2
The engineer panicked and jumped off the 3
tre.in~when the brakes gave way, and it almost went into 4
the Susquehanna River, but the thing of it is the 5
transformer was badly damaged.
It was-worth nearly 6
,; S 1, 0 0 0, 0 0 0, it weighed nearly 250 tons and at that time, 7
the PP&L issued a press release saying they had a back 8
transformer that would be used.
up 9
Now, on or about October 19, 1980, the 10.PP&L filed some information in the media saying that 11 they filed suit against Conrail for damages to this 12 250 ton transformer.
A t
o 13 And, by the way, we have outstanding
~
i discovery,against_the PP&L for_ any,,and all informe
.on 14 is}
[
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}-
15 about any and-all lawsuits perta,ining to the equipment-16 or.the manufacture of anything u. sed on that site.
And i
17 they haven' t' somplie'd,with - db.Nt' Eiscovery.
i ylSince last dctober when they filed that l
18 l
19 lawsuit, they did not give us the documentation.
They 1
20 have been in flagrant violation of their discovery 21' requirements all along.
22
.Now, this filing was made in Lehigh-j 23 County Court against Conrail, that's a Federal 24 corporation, and PP&L is suing for the cost of repairing 25 the transformer.
They have previously said they would 7s
( J-U-G &
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BOX 123. OLD FORGE. PA. 18518.(717) 457 4883 4S7-8811 E
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895.
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1 not repair the transformer, but they would use another 2
brand new one in place of it last October.
They said 3
they are going to repair the transformer and return it 4
to the construction site at the nuclear plant from the; 5
McGraw Edison Plant in Canonsburg, Pa.
6 McGraw Edison is the manufacturer of i
7 the transformer.
The cost of having the severely 8
uamaged transformer repaired and returned to the 9
construction site is over $700,000 and now--
10 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
.Mr.'Halligan, I 11 don't understand what that has to do with this.
12 MR. HALLIGAN:
The relevancy is that
(~'?
i
(-
13 there-has been a recent transformer fire at a nuclear 14
,lant, and I'm not certain, t, hat I,believe it was at
>i,f
-A.
15 Indian. Point, an'dlit.almost caused a total destruction c
16 to the electrical,back up sys, tem that will be used at 17 that React'or as al f a il'-s a f e .e vic e, and it could have 18 been a reocc'urrsncelof the~ Brown's Ferry accident of 19 1975.
20 In other words, why in the world are 1
l 21 the Applicants putting back into service,'on that site, 22 a transformer that's slipped oft the runaway train, that l
23 was severely damaged and apparently insured.
24 Now, they are suing, and all of this 25 is relevant information to Contention 10.
It has not 7~
G & G REPORTING AGENCY, INC.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FCMGE. PA.
18S18.(717) 457 4883 457-8811 F
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1 j
1 been forthcording.. They. are well aware of this and, 2
as you told us yesterday,.all parties are under the 3
injunctive Order to. bring information forward.as it
~
4 becomes.available, and they have been'in non-compliance T
5 from day 1.
6 So I feel that this Contention has a lot 7
of implications in addition to-the lengthy argument I 8
gave yesterday about the Statewide' Rail Plan, and effect 9
that the PP&L may have to buy the' rail system and
~. this is something that just came 10 everything.else.
- But, 11 to my attention'now, to transformer.5.
12
. CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Mr. IIalligan, I 13 just have to;say, again,1within the period.of 10 days I
14 a'fter the final supplement is out, you are g'oing'to have s r ;;; c, ;
s
.~r n,
'"4 s'
15 to identify: those-b !.. '} !!n y/>
?i;, ill.
We'w 16 MR. II ALLIG AN :
t'
'r
. ', n' i ::
I
-17
, /C11 AIRMAN ?GLEASONl: i
-And you will.have.to w
t.
e.,;,
18 write them down.$n,,.
m,, -
i
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19
.MR.
IIALLIGAN :
We will.
j '
20 MR. CUTCIIIN :
Mr. Chairman, I'd like'to l
21 remind the Board that I pointed out yesterday that the I
'22 supplement in which that' matter is addressed is the one 23 which..uicis t s.
I 24 Recently, it does exist, now, with the 25 information which Mr. IIalligan would be interested in
~
!O O eG REPORTING AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD FORGE, PA. 18518.(717) 457 4883 4S7-831I i
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l' seeing.
I pointed out.was on page 2--2.
2 MR. II ALLIG AN : -
It is'not relevant to i3 the Contention part of'it, f
4 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
What you.are~saying,
.5 Mr. Cutchin,_is that there will be no further' reference i
6 Ion that matter in the. final supplement?
7-
.MR.
CUTCIIIN :
That's what I am saying,;
4 8
sir..
9 CIIAI'RMAN GLE ASON :'
All right.
I'm.
10 glad to have.the correction, becaus e then, ' Mr.' _ IIalligan,
11 we would expect'you--as soon. 'as ittsays(in the prior.
, 12 Order before the. IIearing--but think that as' soon-as 13 that 10 days after the site visit is over, then you ought.
l 14 to have something in or we'll'have~to take further actior,.
, MR., II6J LIGA.N :...Well, Mr. Chairman, I'
i 15 i
i 4 _
f Vgi r
I; 5.
t*34
e
- 1 16 would petition',the' Boardgtptallowine and the Citizens-j 17 to make that issue of, compliance with that Order ' on -the
, f g t' $, ; I 18 day - we visit' the ' site'.
You'rea'lize--
..,.cr-,v 19 CHAIRMANjGLEASON:
Ten days after the
(
i 20 visit.
I 21 MR. IIALLIGAN :
Okay, thank you.
22 C11 AIRMAN GLEASON:
-Because I heard you-23 indicate this was important.
Okay.
24 I should be asking_the Applicant, but-25 what can he'say_as I said before.
[
G & G R EPO RTIN G AGENCY, I NC.
P.O.
BOX 123 Ct.D FOR3E. PA. t 85 8 8. (717) 457-4653 457-8811 f
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I Now, on' Contention 2,
the= Board is-in-2 l this--just deals with the Chlorine use-part of this i
3 Contention, V
f 4
The Board has given a great deal'.of 5
thought to--this matter and it. finds it'is in.a very bad 6
jsituation because~of--frankly, it probably would have-7 ruled differently if.;it had been theLfull. Board.at the
~
~
8 time that that motion'for this position had.been before 9
us.
10 IIowever,- a ruling has.been made by the-11 Board and we think it would,be-unfair to-the parties 12 to reverse that saying on the basis of just a motion for 13 reconsideration without anything more.
~
14 But in order to provide a fair-oppor-15 tunity for that,, wha,t we, would do,is--I'll put in an
. f:
- i * ;;
ls fy-some-other Order j ustl so yoti'11: know;,i unless you have 16 s
i t
,,r 17 comments you;want.to,make.
,We will provide an 4
1
~
18 addition'al ' period' for'cciiscoYery, f a short time with 19 respect to that Cbnten' tion),r andfa'short period for 20 response on the discovery.
21 And, on the b' asis of that, we will.-rule
. 22 anew'with' respect.'to that whether that Chlorine part 23 survives as a Contention for retrial or not.
24 It seems to me that that is a correcc.way
~
g of doing it, it is fair.'to the Intervenors.
25 Q)
+
G &_G REPORTING AGENCY. IN C.. P.O.
BOX 123=OLD F7RGE. P A.
18818 (717) 457 4883 487-8811 f
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=1' I should be addressing, I guess, to.the-
'2 Applicants as well, I'm sorry.
'It is fair.to the
~
3
.Intervenorc who sponsored that Contention, it would 4
prevent'the thing.in the light where the Doard can get'
'5 it without going to:~all the-parties.
.'S o < t h a t ' s.w h a t '
6 it intends to do.
7 MR. SILBERG:
Could you-just-explain a 8
little more the scope of--
'9 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
-Yes.
Go ahead.
10 MR. SILBERG:
The. scope of; discovery?
11 Cl! AIRMAN GLEASON:
Well, it seems to me--
12 it seems.to us that'what has happened before is the 13 Board rarely permitted.a1new Contention to come into 14 the-proceeding.via-itsfresponse which it should have 15 done as far as--as part'of the sun'sponte authority 16' rather'than..the,way,it did, it.,,
t>~
,L
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y
,Ilkinkii~t-*1b(fa.ir{to say the Board does 17 concern pf its,own pip, respect to the 18 have some o
use se
. < ?' i 'nt i!
I cannot say that Chlorinehn't'his' facility,l,u:t, 19 of b
.<3, s
20 it desires t o ~ r'a i s e ' t h i s' i s s u..,' o'n i t s own at-itis e'
21 particular time, or.any question in ;onnection with it.
I
~
22 The predicate, if you~will, or the j.
23 foundation, if you will, and the Board's reading of'the 24 Rulings--the prior Board's Ruling, was that they were 25 two things which formed its basis, and that was an i
G & G R E POR TIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P,0.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18598.(717) 457-4403 497-8811 m..
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allegation, and they were,nothing more than allegations 2-by the Intervenor, that a new. facility had been planned
'3 somewhere 15. miles above the site which would add
+
4 additional material into:the Susquehann'a River',.Wh'ch 5
would then flow into th'etintake, which.would. increase I the_ necessity, or which wouldLadd to.the necessity, 'or 6
f
+
7 increased chlorine, which'further complicated-it.
8'
.And'furthermore, there is additional 9
study of environmental' nature tha't was' supposed _to-
~
~
10 either'lowerithe standards or call'for' lowering of_the 11 standards,.and. call for_ consideration.~ And those'were 4
1 12 accepted without any proof of their authenticity or-13 -
accuracy.
+
14 And that is the direction we think-the 1-15 discovery ought t'o take.
~
i 16 MR. ' SILBERG:
So th'e discovery would flow from!Sta.ff,and;Applican. $ $$ '
(Ji
- ?l
{
i
? '
17 ~
ts. t.uob,the Intervenors?
~
au i3
-CIIAIRMAN.GLEASON :, Absolutely.
'i j,a e.h i i"
i 19 Absolutely.
<:i O7 n ? C:
.A 20 iMR.'SILBERG: 'Nndinot vice versa?
i 21 CHAIRMAN-GLEASON:
No.
No, it should be l
4 f
22 your responsibility'on-the discovery against the Inter--
23 venors responsibility to'either. ignore or respond to,:it.
24-And on the basis of that, you decide.. toc i'
25 respond ~or a'new motion for-summary _ disposition G & G R EPO R TIN G AGENCY. INC.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE, PA. 18598.(717) 457-4883 457-8811 1
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l' automatically to be filed with the Board.
And thenithe 2
Board will rule on it.
That'is-the only way the Board 3'
can approach the-resolution of this issue.
4 MR. !! ALLIG AN :
Mr. Chairman--
5
,; M R. CUTCIIIN :
Could we go in some order?
6 CIIAIRMAN. GLE'ASO'N :-
We'will let the 7
Applicante go first because it is'their. motion'.
8 MR. CUTCIIIN :.
'It is the--Staff's. motion 9
for reconsideration.
10 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Let the Staff go 11 first.
12 MR. CUTCIIIN ':
'I wouldflike Mr. Laverty 13 to respond.
14
.MS.,LAVERTY:
I would;just 'like'some
~
15 clarification--you are. treating this as'a naw Contention 16 dealing with the Etha nol facility.-
0" : t.
'l ' ;' C) Cil A'I RM v _
I'm not t rea' ting ::it.
' 17 '
!!'jMjyj.AN'GLEASON:
a n-sw cCon tent on. "4' m"j g'y;. y\\
O I
saying Ehat's the way i,t 18 as should. nave [-bee % j.r.treatdd'by-Q sm, allowing b'ecause it
't v w: a iw 19
,nj s e e ans>,,
,4 u,.
does have,thatiaspec,t of,the-p)eriodi 20' J
, L; j g g
,;f et /
i i
.On'-tne1f nd ngs of' fact 21
- .MS. LAVERTY:
22 that the original-Board may--
e 23 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
'That Lis'.right.
~ MS. LAVERTY:
And nothing-else.
25 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Mr. Silberg.
G & G R E PO81 TING A GE NCY, -' INC.. P. J, BOX 123 CLD FORGE.
PA.< 105t e (717) 457 4403 487-4811 1
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902.
. O!
I~
,MR.
SILBERG:
On the assumption'that 2'
we will--I think you can assume that there is 100%
3 probability-that Applicants and'the Staff should file 4
such discovery.
~
5:.
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :-
-Well, we assume
~6 fnothing..
Go ahead.
7
-MR.
SILBERG:
On the assumption'that an.
8 a n s w e r -i s.- f o r t h c o m i n'g from'theJIntervenors,-is it at-
~
)
9 that point necessary-that; there be. a 'surc. mary. dispositio~n.
4 10 ' motion?E 11 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
Yes,.we should" file 12 another motion.'
13 MR.'SILBERG:
But need'that motion--need 14 tha't motionebe' based on Aff3. davits or can'it be. based.
15 on the responses?
l 16' CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
'I'think it should be 17 based on yhatever you;think.is*necessary to have.the 4
v y j%,
e tj, f
'g 18 motion ~ app $oved.
J ).E ~
'i2
' t/S I
19
- J
' MR.\\ SILBERG :][QO) day.
3 ;;t L,
tj,.; YKSON:
ies em -
,~
^
20 CIIAIRMAN GL
'M r. Italligan.
j 3 7. ;;p
.;*,yj"-
21 MR f IIALLIGAN :
M'r. Chair' man, I believe l
22' you are' referring-to'the Memorandum.and Order dated 23 May'15, 1981 of.the Atomic License and Safety Board 24 Number-691~.
25 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :'
Probably.
G'& G R E POR TIN G AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.
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1859 S = (717) 457-4443 457-8491 1
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MR. II ALLIG At? :
Which nore or less' 2
sustained our--that part of the Contention dealingLwith 3
Chlorine--
4 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Right, right.
5 MR. IIALLIG AN :
---As an issue.
In other 6
words, you are saying, now, that the summary disposition 7-matter would have to be reinstituted at some later date.
8 But,-I point out that at the present time, the Atomic, 9
or'rather,.the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is.now 10 reviewing an Appeal Board decision on this matter and-11 they will decide this no earlier than July 27 of this 12 year.
O 13 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
_Right.
I4 MR. IIALLIG AN :
So, l could petition 15' this Panel to ask the. Applicants to withhold any'
~
16 discovery and'the NRC Staff to~ withhold-any discovery-I7 on us'until,this Order is forthcoming'and can be
- mi ;;c j' y ;.
y 4
s 18 analyzed.*[.'i l'
' '4 I9
-It may.give.us--shed some light on the c
i b
'I>
- 20 -
matter.
21
. 'CilAIRMAN GLEkSdtf:^
~
I am not. going to 22 direct them.
23~
MR. II ALLIG A'! :
Would it be logical,to,.
24 in' fact, give us due process as well?
It is only a" 25 few days.
O-G & G REPORTINC A G R.N CY, IN C.. P.O.
BOX 123 0LD FORGE, PA. 18518.(717) 457 4483 457-8811
904.
D) i I
CIIAIRMAN GLEA' SON:
,Well--
2 MR. I! A L L I G A N :
We will~ concur'.
3 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:'
Well, let me.say 4
this, Mr. Halligan, that whatever the Commission does 5
it.will. affect whatever anybody;else is doing.
6 What we cannot'do is to' sit with-this 7
issue in limbo while the Commission'does not addre'ss L
the. issue.
And so, I don ' t want to direct ' the Staff.
i 9
I.am just telling them that'the only.;way the Board can 10
. consider this issue, again, is that if they followJthat.-
11 kind of proceeding'and--
12 MR. IIALLIGAN :'
On this,.I will'just--
4 13 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:.
And it may be that 14 the Commission could' delay this for th'e next two or 15 three months.but,.of co'urse, we are going to'aihear2ng.
16 MR. II ALLIGAN :
But could you use your 17 good offices to inform them'.to perhaps-rule on it and s
3
' _/ )
jj ' p? l '.
J '
r
~
18 also--
c g-
~
4 ;; -
'+
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.g.
19 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Well--
ff;i ' ~,
A j Q f, ff s
20 I'(MR.. HALLIGAN:j h- 'do you have a right i
21 to serve discovery on o,ther garties based on this 22 information?-
I believe we do.
23 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
'Which information?
24 MR.. II ALLIGAN :
Well, we never sent any 25 discovery requests =to the-Applicants dealing with any 4
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BOX 923 0LD FORGE, PA. 18558.(717) 487-4883 457-8811
905.
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U I
knowledge they would have about this industrial 2
development upstream.
And, I am certain that they have 3
information because the PP&L have a very large marketing 4
division and any company that is going to put a big 5
multi-million dollars out, initially, for a more complex 6
- area must call in the PP&L marketing staff and engineers 7
to insure them that they have enough electric puwer~to 8
ru' that facility.
9 We feel that they have files on all of 10 these propose operations and it'is their business.
11 They sell electricity, and we feel that they have in 12 their possession this very information that they are
/^)N
(.
13 going to ask us.
.So, we are' going to, in turn,.ask 14 them to make public this information.
We know that 15 they have this type of information either in Allentown 16 or one other, type of~ division in their system.
17 So, I think, it-is to be a two-way--but 18 will you say,tb,e.10. days on this,and you are not-willing
!"f
- : J to wait uilt'il;..th'ey$ ru:le hnecessaril~y?
19 j,
CI! A I R M A N,' G L E A S O N r No.
But I am saying.
20 t !~
1:
21 if they rule--Msi~ Lave'rty, you'a're going to say something
?
s'
"* m,
MS.'LAVERTY:
I am very uncertain as 22 23 to how the Board thinks that I can effectively-deal with this issue.
d I would like to go through a lit le of
-s_
(
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BOK 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 1859 8 = (717) 4574883 457-8811
906.
,G
%I I
the history of it so that you can understand my inter-2 pretation of the Contention.
The Contention. talks about 3
the Health Effects of Chlorine and if you looked at the 4
effects of the Board Order.on page 300, it t a l k s'La b o u t' 5
NRC Considoration of the Health Effects of the Chlorine l Discharged.must be based on the amounts.specified in 6
7 the discharge oormit.
8 Okay.
That established the breath of 9
chis Contention.
The breath is the Health Effects of 10 the amount which dictated by NPDES permit which, of Il course, the' Staff has no 4urisdiction.
So, what 12 happened, was during the c..covery process when CAND (3
's
/
13 was asked what its concern.was regarding chlorine, they 14 indicated that they were concerned about acid-mine 15 drainage and toxic chemicals.
When Applicant responded 16 to their Contention and their motion for summary motion 17 disposition they addressed CAND's concern.
When the 18 Staff responded to Applicant.'s., motion, CAND's response was not only ad,dr'essed bo acid-mine drainage and toxic 19 20 chemicals; we also discussed the Health Effects of 21 Chlorine amounts t$atwould ibe discharged by the 22 f acility under Applicants ILPD3 I permit.
23 now,.ihat happened when the Board ruled?
24 The Board brought.into question, into issues, the g-possibility of an Ethanol facility existing upstream.
25
\\ _)
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BOX 123. OLD FORGE. PA. 18518.(717) 4S7 4683 4S7 8811 l
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i 907.
/~T
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It also references the OED study of the Health Effects.
2 Now than, if I filed discovery on CAND and CAND gives 3
me the same newspaper articles which is referenced in its earlier motion, we will still not know whether or 5
not there is going ;o be an Ethanoi facility and I will 6
- still not know whai. to do because in effect', that is 7
changing the Contention without having req- ' red any of 8
the specificity or basis that would have originally 9
been required at submission stage.
Originally, the 10 Staff's reviews just goes to the Health Effects of amount that will be discharged.
12 Now, 7 will address the CEQ study because g3
('l 13 that is not going e talked about, I understand,:the I4 H3alth Effects but the responsibility of an Ethanol 15 facility upstream, unless the Board wants to spell out 16 for me what relationship it thinks that the possibility.
I7 of en Ethanol facility upstream has on the plant.
I 18 don't know what I should do.
o O
CHhIRMhMI GLE5 SON:
I don't think it I9 i
i 20 would be appropriate..for the Board to do that.
Mr.
t s
.i. t; 21 Halligan.
h 22 HhLLIGANi' ;\\,No, Mr. Chairman.
c CMR4 23 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
No.
Again, let me i
24 finish.
It-is clear that the Intervenors imposing the 25
(-)
motion for summary disposition relied on information k/
G & G R E PO R TIN G AG E PICY, IN C.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD F O ut G E.
PA. 18518 (717) 457 4883 457-8811
=-
M o
908.
Q l-which was not' supported by' Affidavit.
That--can be 2
tested through another'motionifor discovery and that:is 3'
the opportunity you are being offered.;
4 4
Weearesnot changing:the Contention as it-
~
5 was,discussediby the. prior Board and that has-been 6f really the.. substance.of.your motion-for reconsideration;
~
7 to.rceonsider the? Board's decision'on that Contention 4
i 8
as was defined..
j 9
I think that is the only fair way that
- 10 we can get od it.
We are not in a position, and to be i.
Il fair to partie,s, to approve your motion for reconsidera-4 12.
tion._We'are in'a position to.of'ler'another opportunity 13 -
for-discovery and that is what we are doing.
14 MR. IIALLIG AN :
.Mr.. Chairman?
15 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
M r. =11 a l l i g a n'.
j 16 '
MR. IIALLIG AN :
The Citizens substantially
-17 support your views just ma'de, and we just want to add 18 one' thing that Attorney Laverty omitted.
We.haC filed l
19 papers that< identified the fact,that not one, but,two in 1, tit r,
i,<,;,
+.
20 licenses Appar'ntly.5were filed with the Departmentsof e
21 Energy--thepU.S. Lapartmeng of Energy and we suggest
,.. G. J 7>
.c
'ue' course and obtain copies i
22 that-they' contact the" GAO 'in. d t -
t.
4.*,
23 of them.
They' do kn'oh haveitheN1n their pos' session, 24 but'they.have access to their records and files that 4
25 they.could learn that ~information.
- O
[
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BOX t23. CLD FORGE. PA. ISSIS. (717) 457 4603 487 8891 t
3 a
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'909.
l I
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Mr. !!alligan, I think 2~
that--
3 3
MR. HALLIGAN:
They omitted the statement.
I
' 4 CHAIRMAN GLEASON: '
,Well, I really do.not i
5 want to get into this any further.
What.the-Board 6
offered--Ms. Zitzer?
7 MS. ZITZER:
-Just as a' point of clari-4
'8 fication, the beginnir.g part of Content' ion 2 'as it had; j
p 9
bee'n distributed.
'10 CIIAIRMAN 'GLEASON :
That.still.has not 11' been touched'and it is still--part of.the Contentions I
.12 it is'still valid and alive.
- 13 MS. ZITZER:
Do you know the IIealth-14 Effects of Low-Level Radiation, that is still--
.15 i
CI! AIRMAN GLEASON: _ _That.is'still in.
16 -
the hearing. process.
That has notibeen.affacted.by i
- 17. -
any of this'.
-It has not been affected by the' summary.-
- 18' motion'of summary' disposition.
1 19 '
,MS. ZITZER:
,What I understandEfrom I-b
> i; x, -
- 1. d ;s.u v s. n.,.It glie s, s..my, - questi~on. is relating to th
, f 20 the ECNP cas -- _
1 r
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- 21 Contention.. Are we still. permitted to-participate or
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3 a 22 51 ave we been ;o'f h error? u' Is Lthatione of : the areas 1we have a
I been barred. to; dd'r'tiicigat'e'jf'r"oin?l
~
~
.23 24 l MR. SILBERG:
ECNP--
25 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
I..th' ink you have.been I
'-G
& G REPORTING AGENCY. I N C. ~. P.O. BOX 123 0LD FORGE. PA2 18518 - (717) 457 4443 457-8411 l
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barred from all IIealth and-Environmental issues.
2 MR... II ALLIGAN :.
But'I think.it is barred 3'
froIt all Environmental issues.
S I
4 CIIAI' MAN GLEASON:
Then youfare'stil'1 R
5 there.
6
!!S.. ZITZER:
.Okay..
Thank you.
7 CII AIRMAN. GLE ASON :
Does the,StateTwant 4
l 8
to comment in this. area?
l 9
MR. IIALLIG AN :
We are' going to4 request 10 the State to comment.
II j
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
'You.cannot.
12 MR. IIALLIGAN :
Well,-the' objection is
.13 that Attorney.Laverty, for the NRC' Staff, said.that
~
I 14 this permit'that she-referred _to is-a. State permit.
15
- And, I' b$lieve, that the_ Attorney.'for the Commonwealth j
16 could clear the. a,ir~a bit'here because there is no-i f
17 finality to permits.
They can reopen a permit when there i l
18 is a change used if they exp'and their waste' disposal-19 in a waterway of the Commonwealth and the D.E.R, i
. ; ;- jr~ g g c
. _ m,9 l
20 DepartmeniiLof EnvlironmeiltaliResources must go in_and l
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j 21 inspect and examin,e'this'and deal with it accordingly.
i x
{bbNously,\\ Iif} k;oti;go to apply for a l
22 permit 23 and dump-3,000,000; gall'onsicf. treated water in the River as.
u.
24 and'tney later learn that'you are dumping that many 25 gallons of treated water here of more toxic substancea O
G &G R EPOR TING A G E N k".Y.
I N C.. P.O. BOX 123 0LD PORGE. PA. 18518 4 717) 437 4333 437 8811 6
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into the River, they are going to reopen the hearing on 2
this permit and license, whatever, and deal with it 3
acccrdingly.
And, I think, I would like to get a 4
comment from the Solicitor from the Commonwealth.
5 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON :
If you want to l comment, fine.
But, I do want te end thls session.
6 7
MR. II ALLI J AN :
Just a'few--
8 MR. ADLSR:
First of all, I put in 9
yesterday to put Mr. IIalligan in contact with the 10 Bureau of "ater Quality, D.E.R.
Office and they can 11 plan a permit for the plant.
12
.They will also have on file all permit O
13 applications that are now outstanding.
These 14 applications are in addition, published in the 15 Pennsylvania Code and Mr. IIalligan could learn of any 16 upstream permit applications'by looking at the Code.
17 We will have an Order of that and we
'8 can give you the right application.
I9 CII AIRMAN GLEASON:
I do want to say, 20 again, that7 we are gnot going,to. stand basis for
.t 21 Content ions thr'o'u'gk[dhis. nod'methodofdiscovery.
We 22 are standing-.with;the basis.of,where it was with the
~
23 discovery opportunity.
n 24 It Is". open to Mr. ' llalligan as well as 25 the State during this 10 day period, but--
r3\\-)
l G & G REPORTING AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD FORGE, PA. If 518. (717) 457 4883 457 8811 i
r e
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912.
(3
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l MR. ADLER:
That was my additional 1
2 point.
3 It seems to ne that regardless of what 4 l additional upstream discharging may occur in the IIjfuture, PP&L are still bound by their limits of their 5
6
'NPDS permit and they will be able to discharge a l maximum of the Chlorine.
7 8
C11 AIRMAN GLEASOM:
That is a point that 9
has been ignored frequently in this case.
10 MR. ADLER:
All right.
11 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Anyway, I understand, 12 where we are with respect to that-reconsideration, if w
x-)
13 you will.
All right.
The only thing left to--not 14 discuss, but to summarize--
15 MR. SILBERG:
Excuse me, before you 16 summarize.
As I understand it, you will put out an 17 Order that spells this out and establishes the time 18 frame for this discovery?
19.
CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Yes, yes, I will.
20 nope to have this done in the next I
i 21 few days.
i',
,s.
r 22 Ws.will recess this hearing in a few y.]
j.
23 minutes until' July--untiliAugust 12th.
We will direct 24 the parties to mee6 and,it ;will: be at 9:00 o' clock
^
25 on the 12th in, I think, this hotel; unless you are
-s (V
)
G & G R E P O R TIN G AGENCY. IN C.. P.O.
DOR 123. OLD FORGE. P A.
18518.(717) 457-4683 4S7-8891 t
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I notified to the contrary.
2 We will direct the parties to meet 3
together on the lith, to consider the further modifica-4 tion and further specifications of the remaining 5 l Contentions.
T!1at will be the subject of the Board's 6 I] review consideration on the 12th.
7 We will be making a. visit to the site, 8
the afternoon of the 12th, and which the parties cer-9 tainly are encouraged to be present.
10 I presume--can transportation be made 11 available so we can make a caravan so that we can 12 stay together with the Applicants?
(~
^ ')
13 MR. SILBERG:
You mean a bus or van?
14 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
Something like that, 15 I think it is important to keep the group together at 16 the site.
I 17 MR. SILBERG:
We will make arrangements.
18 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
We will need prior--
19 iyou have to have prior notification of the in'dividuals 20 who will be at the site.
Keep in mind, we are not 21 talking ab;out,. friends of ~ friends (twe are talking about s
22 parties.
23-MR. SILBERG:..
t'We will request that it 24 be kept to the repr.esentatives;pf the parties.
.If we 25 have a large number, it will become unmanageable.
(3) f G & Q R E POR 73 N G AGENCY. ? N C.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD ' FORGE. P A. 18518 = (717) 457 4683 457 8811
O
^
I CII AIRMAN GLEASON: ~
Right.
4 2
MR.'SILBERG:
.I would-request that' I
3~
those who ar's coming ~ notify Pennsylvania ?ower and.
i 4
Light not later-than Tuesday,. August 4, by calling
=5 either Bill Barbieri (sic)r at area 215 5770-5833,=or l
~6 Ray Ilarris; and he is on the same. area' code, same 7
exchange.-
IIis extension is.4474.
i
'IALLIGAN:
Mr. Chairman.
8
'MR.
9 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Yes, Mr. !!alligan?
1 10 MR. IIALLIGAN :
This refers to Attorney 11 Silberg.
The Citizensi--are you allowing us to;take 12 four or five people in this case?.
0 v
13 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:.
No,'ITthink'I willi 1.
14 allow one other person; l
15 MR. IIALLIG AN :
Well, I may-need--I 7
16 think the thing of it is, a few people might be-down i
17 there to. join us..
They-won't come up here, but in
~
i 18 -
other words, each group--each Intervenor should be-19 allowed to have three or four people to tour.the site.-
l 20 MR. SILBERG:
That will: really be r
21 too much.f.;;,.-,
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',,; L ?.Mii.tiH5LLIGAN :' ; ?I d;on ' t think1so,'because
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23 any day of;the yeek,(theiPP&Lghage buses.
They have t
'f,'
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_ 24 been bringing "i'n ' thousands of' people.
,9 :.
25
. *)
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,' MR.'
SILBERG:
l'--Those are the people l
l G er G R E PO R TIN G AGENCY, INC.. P.O.
BOX 123. OLD FORGE. P A. 18518.(717) 457 4483'457-8811 i
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I that are billing the facility.
2 ga,. IIALLIGAN : -
'No, I'am not; talking _
3 about that, I am talking about social' groups,. citizen 4
groups.
'And, I read it irt the' newspaper.-.And, they 4
5 take busloads down there and.they serve them lunch.
i 6
=MR.
SILBERG:
That is not a tour of 7
the plant.
8 MR. HALLIGAN:
They do go down"to the'
^
9 site.
I am well aware of.this, and to restrict it to 10' one person--this is where we are goingito be busy--down I
11 there dealing with Contention Number 10.
II I think thatJwe'should be allowed'that i
13 each group have three or four people and.that is not 14 too many.
15 '
MR. SILBERG:
I would ~ also note, I think, i
16 you have a misunderstanding of the site tour.-
This is i
I7 not an opportunity for'you to wander at will at the l
18 Contention site.
l9 '
MR. !!ALLIGAN :
I know.- We will follow l
20 the' instructions.
i 2I
. CHAIRMAN GLEASON:-
No..
They wil'1 be y.
c r
ir+,^r:
t, te 16 g
-4 22 having an[6pp'or,tunityjto?haveltheicertain places that 23 cre not on:the-tour visited.
~ 'E 4 I } j; 5 ! ", !
'~I'mean,~If thes-dant to look at the 24
.,. y'
'y" I#
25' railroad tracks.!
4
- O G eG R E PO RTIN G AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOM 123 0LD FORGE. PA. 18598.(7171 4S7 4443 487-8511
916.
O I
MR. SILBERG:
The-tour isLreally for 2
the benefit of'the Board, and whateYer the Board wishes 3
to'see, it will see.
4 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Right.
Well, I 5'
don't know how to handle this thing'on' people.. Wehave 6
organizations admitt'ed.as parties.
7-Would it be too much to say, or incon-8 venient to say, no organization could have more than-4 9
three-people?
Would that inconvenience you?
10 MR. SNAPP:
.Can we>take two minutes?
11 CHAIRMAN GLEASON:
.Yes, sir.
12 (Whereupon,.a brief'off.the record 13 discussion was held.)
]
14 MR. SILBERG:
That'will be acceptable.
15 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
All right, fine.
16 So, let's leave it at that.
No organization will have 17 more than three people as a part of thetr party'.
18 Let'me ask the State, is that.all right 19 with you?
i 20 MR. ADLER:
Yes
- h at is fine.
21 CIIAIRMAN GLCASON :
I might say that we do have aim'get,,.odioni f rom ? tli.e'Stit'e,iYbich I meant'to dis-j
.m,,
3 22 A J L i ',j Q iI,' it J*h.
23 cuss, about: substituting somebody.
So that they
," F 3,
~ :
'z 4y represent' t!h.el, cc Lat,e; > Tha t-is. ; construed to the 24 taking-
. yy place--anyway,, /s, o- -if ; ito,will,0. w, e lwill ' put - that in an.
i, 25 e.g i,
14 4 G & G R EPO RTING AGENCY, I N C.. P.O.
BOX 123=OLD FORGE ' PA. 18518 (717) 457 4883 487-8811 i
,. _~,---..-
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pL 917.
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Order.
2 MR. ADLER:
That was merely in response 3
to'another motion, Mr. iia lligan ' s.
4 CIIAIRMAN GLEASOli:
Yes.
I 5
MR. ADLER:
We will. skip the Pennsylvania 6
State; motion.
I would prefer to leave that :until. the I
7 12th.
{
8 CIIAIRMAN.GLEAS'ON :
'All right,. fine.
9 But I would urga you tto have:,thatson:the 12th.:
's:,
~
10 MR.:SILBERG:-
'Again, one'other thing, 11-I would request you^to call.Mr..Barbieri orfMr. Harris-
~
12 by the 4th.
13' CHAIRMAN GLEASON:-
Thatiis right.f They,'
~
14 have to have the names ahead of-time.
15 MR. SILBERG:
'.If theunames are not-
'16 given ahead of time, th ey'<*
will. not' be; able to go.
17 CHAI'RMANcGLEASON:
Please-keep that 18 in mind.
19 Are there any. loose ~ ends?
.y
~ 20 MR. ADLER:
Just one.
I. misstated'this1 21 yesterday, permitfapplications are published'-in the 22 Pennsylvani,a B.ul-l.etin,. notc the-P,en.nsylvania Code.
s;
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23 IIIi JCHA$$tMAN *GNESSOO :
'All right, thank-24 you.
' if ?N 3 'M 1 i
';.4.,t Q:,L
,a al p.
25
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G.& G RFPORTING AGENCY, kNC.. P.O Bok 123.'bLD FORGE. PA. ISSt s. (717) 4S7 4683 457-8811 4
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that you can recall?
2 MR. SILBERG:
Nothing.
3 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Mr.'Cutchin?
4 MR. C U T C tII N :
Nothing, that can't wait.
5 CII AI RMAN GLEASON:
-All right.
We are' 6
appreciative of that.
7 MS. ZITZER:
Where is the meeting 8
between our parties on the'llth?
9 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Yes, should that be 10
. here, too?
I think you ought to keep it here in the 11 Ilo t e l.
12 MR. CUTCIIIN :
We will make an attempt (m
ts 13 to arrange a room here in the IIo te l.
14 MS. ZITZER:
What time?
I assume we 15 will be notified?
16 MR. CUTCIIIN :
I will say that I will 17 check with the parties and get a phone call to each, 18 and I will assume the responsibility.
19 CI! AIRMAN GLEASON:
All right, you will 10 assume the responsibility.
21 MR. SILBERG:
Why don't we assume that 22 it is 9:00-o' clock unless we. hear otherwise.
, s
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M R~..
HALLIG,All:
. Oneiother alternative 24 suggestion,ywhen you, talked-aboutzthe hearing site,
'T 1
y 25 before we---
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Y G & G R E PO R TIN G
_ AGENCY. I N C.. P.O.' ' B O X 123. OLD FORGE. PA.
I 8518 = (717) 457-4663 457-6811
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,a 919.
I CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
That is right, yes.
~
2 e-M R '...IIALLIG AN :
We talked about Wilkes-3 College.
I would like_to amend that for'the record 4
and about the possible. site to-Wilkes. College or-to 5-Kings-College which'is in walking-distance to'the hotels 6
!in the center city.
The'y--are both a'ccessible to'public 7'
transportation, and-so forth.
8' CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
That is another one'-
?
that we can take a look ati.
'IIope f ully, we'can decide 10 on that.
?
11 MR. CUTCIIIN :
Oh, the Board'will specify
- 12 9:00 o' clock here, arid ~I will arrange for a\\ room and.
1'
~
desk.
13 have people at the 14 CIIAIRMAN GLEASON:
Okay, see you all.
15 1 Thank you.
16 (Whereupon,-at 11:45 A.M.,
the IIearing above-entitled matteras; recessed to reconvene 17 in the w
18-at 9:00-o' clock A.M.-,
August 1the 12th.)
19 l-
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i l
l-
l 920 OV This is to certify that the attached proceedings 'cefore the f
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the : natter cf: SUSQUEHANNA STEAM ELECTRIC STATIONS, UNITS 1 & 2
- Date of ?roceeding:
JULY.23, 1981 Docket Number:
50-387-388 Place of ?roceeding: wrtgpg exnne. pn i
were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript therecf for the file of the Coc=ission.
Lisa Levine Francesca TesOrierO Official Reporter (Typed)
Y'-
Q p
y Luy44acA M Cfficial Repcrter (Sig:.ature) e O
O l
...