ML020090718
| ML020090718 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vermont Yankee File:NorthStar Vermont Yankee icon.png |
| Issue date: | 02/04/2002 |
| From: | Pulsifer R NRC/NRR/DLPM/LPD1 |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| Pulsifer R M, NRR/DLPM, 415-3016 | |
| References | |
| 2.206, NRC-165 | |
| Download: ML020090718 (36) | |
Text
February 4, 2002 MEMORANDUM TO: File FROM:
Robert M. Pulsifer, Project Manager, Section 2
/RA/
Project Directorate I Division of Licensing Project Management Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation
SUBJECT:
VERMONT YANKEE NUCLEAR POWER STATION - 2.206 PETITION CONFERENCE CALL TRANSCRIPT On December 27, 2001, the Petition Review Board held a teleconference with Mr.
Mulligan, the petitioner, regarding his 2.206 petition, dated November 30, 2001, as supplemented on December 3, 2001. The call was held for Mr. Mulligan to provide additional supporting information. Attached please find the transcript of that call.
Docket No. 50-271
Attachment:
As stated cc w/attach: See next page
February 4, 2002 MEMORANDUM TO: File FROM:
Robert M. Pulsifer, Project Manager, Section 2
/RA/
Project Directorate I Division of Licensing Project Management Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation
SUBJECT:
VERMONT YANKEE NUCLEAR POWER STATION - 2.206 PETITION CONFERENCE CALL TRANSCRIPT On December 27, 2001, the Petition Review Board held a teleconference with Mr.
Mulligan, the petitioner, regarding his 2.206 petition, dated November 30, 2001, as supplemented on December 3, 2001. The call was held for Mr. Mulligan to provide additional supporting information. Attached please find the transcript of that call.
Docket No. 50-271
Attachment:
As stated cc w/attach: See next page DISTRIBUTION:
PUBLIC PDI-2 R/F E. Adensam (e-mail EGA1)
J. Clifford R. Pulsifer R. Subbaratnam T. Clark S. Black H. Berkow ACCESSION NO.: ML020090718 OFFICE PDI-2/PM PDI-2/LA PDI-2/SC NAME RPulsifer TClark JClifford DATE 01/22/02 01/17/02 01/28/02 OFFICIAL RECORD COPY
SERVICE LIST cc w/attach:
Mr. Michael Mulligan P.O. Box 161 5 Woodlawn Lane Hinsdale, NH 03451 Gautam Sen Licensing Manager Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Corp.
185 Old Ferry Road P.O. Box 7002 Brattleboro, VT 05302-7002
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Conference Call on the 2.206 Petition on Vermont Yankee Docket Number:
050-00271 Location:
(telephone conference)
Date:
Thursday, December 27, 2001 Work Order No.:
NRC-165 Pages 1-24 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD PANEL 4
CONFERENCE CALL 5
x 6
IN THE MATTER OF:
7 2.206 PETITION
- Docket No.
8 ON VERMONT YANKEE
- 050-00271 9
10
x 11 Thursday, December 27, 2001 12 13 Via telephone conference call 14 15 The above-entitled matter came on for 16 hearing, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m.
17 18 BEFORE:
19 SUZANNE BLACK, Chairperson, 20 Petition Review Board 21 22 23 24 25
2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 PARTICIPANTS:
1 HERBERT BERKOW, Office of Nuclear Reactor 2
Regulations. NRC 3
RALPH CARUSO, Reactor Systems Branch, NRC 4
JIM CLIFFORD, Office of Nuclear Reactor 5
Regulations, NRC 6
CRAIG HARBUCK, Technical Specifications Branch 7
RICHARD LOBEL, Office of Nuclear Reactor 8
Regulations, NRC 9
MICHAEL MULLIGAN, Petitioner 10 ROBERT PULSIFER, Vermont Yankee Project Manager 11 GAUTAM SEN, Licensing Manager, Vermont Yankee 12 RAM SUBBARATNAM, NRC Coordinator for the 13 2.206 Petition 14 GEORGE THOMAS, Reactor Systems Branch, NRC 15 ROBERT WANCZYK, Director of Regulatory Affairs, 16 Vermont Yankee 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
(2:30 p.m.)
2 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
I will call the PRB on 3
the line, please.
4 MR. SEN:
Gautam Sen, Licensing Manager, 5
Vermont Yankee.
6 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Wonderful.
Is there 7
anybody else with you on the line on the other side 8
other than Vermont Yankee?
9 MR.
SEN:
I also have Bob
- Wanczyk, 10 Director of Regulatory Affairs, Vermont Yankee.
11 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Okay, wonderful.
This 12 is the Petition Review Board of the Nuclear Regulatory 13 Commission here.
We're waiting for the Petitioner, 14 Mr. Michael Mulligan.
15 (No response.)
16 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
We'll stand by then.
17 (Pause.)
18 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Is the Petitioner, Mike 19 Mulligan, on the line please?
20 (No response.)
21 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
What all we have is the 22 Licensee from Vermont Yankee, right?
23 MR. SEN:
Yes.
24
4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
We're waiting for Mr.
1 Mulligan.
Hold on.
2 MR. SEN:
Okay.
3 (Pause.)
4 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Is the Region on the 5
line please?
6 (No response.)
7 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Nope.
Okay.
Stand by.
8 (Pause.)
9 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Is that Mike Mulligan 10 joining us on the line?
11 MR. MULLIGAN:
Yes, sir.
How are you 12 doing?
13 MR.
SUBBARATNAM:
Fine.
We're all 14 assembled up here.
How are you doing?
15 MR. MULLIGAN:
Oh, pretty good.
16 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Very good.
I'm going to 17 turn this over to the Petition Review Board Chairman, 18 Suzy Black.
19 She will give a preamble and give you the 20 game rules of what they're going to do for this 21 afternoon, and we will take over from there.
Here is 22 Suzy Black.
23
5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Okay.
My name is 1
Suzanne Black.
I'm the Chairman of the Petition 2
Review Board.
Why don't we introduce ourselves?
3 MR.
LOBEL:
Richard
- Lobel, Office of 4
Nuclear Reactor Regulations.
5 MR. BHACHU: Ujagar Bhachu --
6 MR. HARBUCK:
Craig Harbuck, Technical 7
Specifications Branch.
8 MR. BERKOW:
Herb Berkow, NRR.
9 MR. CLIFFORD:
Jim Clifford, NRR.
10 MR.
THOMAS:
George
- Thomas, Reactor 11 Systems Branch.
12 MR. CARUSO: Ralph Caruso, Reactor Systems 13 Branch.
14 MR.
PULSIFER:
Bob
- Pulsifer, Vermont 15 Yankee Project Manager.
16 MR. SUBBARATNAM: This is Ram Subbaratnam, 17 the Agency coordinator for the 2.206 petition.
How 18 about for the Vermont Yankee Licensee, please?
19 MR.
SEN:
Vermont Yankee Licensing 20 Manager, Gautam Sen, and Robert Wanczyk, Director, 21 Regulatory Affairs, from Vermont Yankee.
22 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
And of course we have 23 Mr. Michael Mulligan, right?
24
6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. MULLIGAN:
That's right.
It's just me 1
here.
2 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Okay.
3 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Okay.
Thank you.
I 4
believe we had a conversation with you before, but 5
I'll go over a little bit of the ground rules.
6 The purpose of this is for the Licensee or 7
the Staff to request additional information where they 8
feel that the petition might have open issues, or 9
leave questions in our minds.
10 And also to provide you an opportunity to 11 give us any supplemental information that you think 12 would make the petition reach the threshold for review 13 under 2.206.
14 And before you start, although we have not 15 had a petition review board meeting on this, we have 16 read your letter, and it seems to me that you have 17 several
- issues, two of which deal with license 18 amendments that are either under review, or have been 19 approved.
20 And another one was about the issue of the 21 suppression pool cooling mode operation of the RHR 22 system, which we recently sent you a letter about.
I 23 think Jim Clifford knows what the date of that letter 24 was.
25
7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. PULSIFER:
November 29th.
1 CHAIRPERSON BLACK: November 29th. And so 2
I have --
3 MR.
MULLIGAN:
I don't I
have not 4
received that yet for some reason.
5 MR. PULSIFER:
It was sent to 5 Woodlawn 6
Lane, in --
7 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Did not Bill Macon talk 8
to you or follow up with you after the letter?
9 MR. MULLIGAN:
About the Vermont Yankee?
10 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
No, on the letter.
11 MR. MULLIGAN:
Right.
You are right.
I 12 thought it was the Vermont Yankee that we are talking 13 about.
14 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Yeah, the issues are 15 similar is what we are trying to say here.
16 CHAIRPERSON BLACK: Right. So even though 17 we have not had a petition review board meeting yet, 18 if we look at our management directive guidance, we 19 cannot take issues that have either been in our -- for 20 which another proceeding is another.
21 For
- example, for the two license 22 amendments, when they are noticed in the Federal 23 Register, you have a hearing right?
And the comments 24 which you have in your letter would be more 25
8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 appropriate for you either commenting on the license, 1
or a license amendment, or reflecting a hearing.
2 And so those two
- issues, and then the 3
third one is suppression pool cooling, and we didn't 4
see anything different in this from the issue that we 5
just addressed on LaSalle.
6 And so one of the other criteria is that 7
it has to be something new, and not something for 8
which we have considered and taken action on in the 9
past.
10 So with that prelude, I think it is the 11 NRC's staff position at this point that the issues in 12 your letter would be answered via letter, as opposed 13 to go to the Director's decision process.
We will 14 give you an opportunity for a
limited amount of 15 additional information if you have that at this time.
16 MR.
MULLIGAN:
- Well, one thing that I
17 would like to mention would be, of course, about our 18 boys overseas and stuff like that.
I want to always 19 mention how I think they are doing an awesome job, and 20 I always want to keep that at the top of my mind.
21 And that is that the kids and the men and 22 women are sacrificing for us, and trying to bring 23 world stability, and so I just want everybody to know 24 that I honor that.
25
9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 As far as the review, I am getting ready 1
to essentially institute another 2.206, and the 2
general justification for that would be if you look at 3
the Limerick Plant, and the recent inspection report 4
where they talk about the relief valve and one of 5
their two
- ends, the two Limerick 111 inspection 6
report, the two-end safety relief valve.
7 And that it might be more or less might be 8
more germane to the NRC than Vermont Yankee and stuff 9
like that.
But the issue is that valve wasn't -- that 10 failure wasn't characterized.
11 And for 81 days, you know, the NRC didn't 12 step in, and didn't -- or as far as I can see in the 13 written inspection report, when the valve was failing 14 and stuff, and when they were using a new method to --
15 and it should not be forgotten that the pressure --
16 the measure -- the way of measuring leakage was a 17 pressure detection type of thing, and that failed.
18 And then they used this temperature 19 monitoring doohickey, and it went on for 81 days, and 20 it really didn't work and stuff.
So the justification 21 for the NRC with LaSalle was that essentially this is 22 all controlled within the NRC's procedures, and rules, 23 and regulations.
24
10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And this business with LaSalle and stuff 1
like that, I just want you to know that you might have 2
a bunch of rules and regulations, but you don't know 3
how to apply them to prevent -- you don't know how or 4
when to step in and prevent a failure like you had at 5
Limerick almost 9 months or 10 months ago.
6 And that is what I am really afraid of now 7
with Vermont Yankee and its current situation now and 8
stuff like that.
You might have a bunch of rules and 9
regulations, and maintenance procedures, and stuff 10 like that, but whether you have the ability to act on 11 a failure -- well, a degradation before a failure, and 12 the challenge that it would bring to a control room is 13 quite amazing on stuff like that.
14 As far as -- and, again, this business 15 with Limerick, it is a -- well, there is a quote here 16 about thought to be overly conservative.
I mean, the 17 NRC must have accepted that, and stuff like that, and 18 the utility said it, et cetera.
19 So the question is how much other things, 20 whether it is at LaSalle, or whether it is Vermont 21 Yankee.
22 CHAIRPERSON BLACK: So what you are saying 23 is that you don't agree with the last letter on 24 LaSalle, and you would like to perhaps come in with 25
11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 another LaSalle 2.206, which could be combined with 1
the Vermont Yankee issue, as well as the Limerick 2
issue?
3 MR. MULLIGAN:
Well, there is a message 4
here that I am trying to explain, and to combine it 5
with the Vermont Yankee and stuff, I don't know if 6
that would do anything as far as with the Limerick 7
plant and stuff.
8 Other than that you have just mentioned 9
that this was keyed on the valve situation being 10 settled as far as the NRC and stuff, and I am just 11 saying that as far as we look at the Limerick relief 12 valve
- problem, and you look at how it was 13 uncharacterized, and how the failure was 14 uncharacterized for 81 days.
15 And when you look at how the NRC failed to 16 step in and control the situation, and so you sit back 17 and say -- well, the NRC basically said that all of 18 our procedures and maintenance rules, and stuff like 19 that, will fully cover the situation at LaSalle.
And 20 what I am saying is that the Limerick events proves 21 that it isn't.
22 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
And so what you would 23 like us to do is get that inspection report and use 24 that information in our deliberations on whether we 25
12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 believe there is a new valve at issue and its future 1
effects.
2 MR. MULLIGAN:
At LaSalle.
3 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
At LaSalle.
4 MR. MULLIGAN:
I mean, I have gotten most 5
of it written and I am cleaning it up, and so I am 6
going to submit that within the next couple of days.
7 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Well, how does that 8
relate to the Vermont Yankee situation?
I mean, did 9
you want us to consider them together?
10 MR. MULLIGAN:
Well, you could put it all 11 things together because they are all kind of related.
12 CHAIRPERSON BLACK: That is what it sounds 13 like.
You are relating the Limerick, the LaSalle, and 14 the Vermont Yankee situation.
15 MR. MULLIGAN:
Right.
16 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
So perhaps if we 17 suggest that you structure your letter between Vermont 18 and
- LaSalle, and look at
- that, and look at the 19 Limerick inspection report, and consider the three.
20 And that, along with the letter that we have before us 21 currently.
22 MR. MULLIGAN:
Do you understand what I am 23 getting at with the lateness amendment and essentially 24
13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 with the summertime torus cooling?
Do you kind of 1
understand the gist of that?
2 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Well, I understand 3
that you disagree with -- it seems like you disagree 4
with
- well, like with this amendment, to just 5
provide further reductions, and that still meet the 6
safety requirements.
7 And as far as cooling, we believe that the 8
operation of that equipment as it currently is being 9
used to keep the plant under the limits, the safety 10 limits, is prematurely wearing out these -- well, to 11 making them less reliable for accident.
12 MR. MULLIGAN:
All right.
When you sit 13 there and you look at the latest license amendment --
14 let's see -- 248, you know, I would like to in effect 15 wonder how the NRC's opinion of the wording of that 16 license amendment and stuff, and then you go down in 17 there and you see a whole bunch of -- well, like for 18 example, it goes on down and starts talking about how 19 the license amendment would reduce wear on the 20 equipment and stuff.
21 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
I can see your point.
22 You are saying that they use the justification that 23 they don't want to operate the equipment to justify 24
14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 less surveillance testing, and at the same time they 1
are using the equipment more for normal operations.
2 MR.
MULLIGAN:
- Well, is it normal 3
operations?
4 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Well, it is not --
5 well, I don't know if the term normal means anything 6
to you, but we use it for a purpose that is not an 7
stipulated purpose.
8 MR. MULLIGAN:
Right.
And so the question 9
at the heart of this for the NRC or at least for me 10 for the NRC is if you tend to allow these facilities 11 to analyze these situations separately, whether it is 12 a benefit or it is going to cost the utility money and 13 stuff like that.
14 And so on this business with this license 15 amendment, you sit there and it sounds like you allow 16 the utility to -- well, like the equipment that is 17 running, and I imagine that the amount of time that is 18 being saved with the equipment not running in this 19 latest amendment is (inaudible) basis method of 20 looking at it is extraordinary minute.
21 But it only runs for -- I don't know, 22 maybe less than an hour, or whatever it is.
I don't 23 know how much the time adds up, but --
24
15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
And I
am not sure 1
whether that was really part of the basis for our 2
accepting the first amendment.
It might have just 3
been additional information that they provided, but we 4
didn't rely on that.
5 MR. MULLIGAN:
Well, it is a question of 6
whether you are allowing these utilities to talk on 7
both sides, and also the NRC is allowing this without 8
questioning it.
9 And you are really talking to the public 10 with those documents and stuff, and so here you are 11 saying we really don't go by what the wording is now 12 and stuff like that.
But that is how you are 13 expressing what you are doing to the public.
14 And it is really amazing how contradictory 15 it is, and how you allow the utilities to come up with 16 these broad categories of how it is going -- you know, 17 how it is going to enhance safety, but then you don't 18 talk about it in any kind of risk-informed kind of 19 way.
20 And the way that I would see it is that 21 with the amount of time that this equipment is being 22 run and stuff like that, compared to the amount of 23 time that it is needed for an accident, is minute.
24
16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And so a risk-informed way of looking at 1
it, you would say it is -- well, to me it would look 2
like it is insignificant.
And then on the other side, 3
what you are going to do with Vermont Yankee, is that 4
you are going to say -- or with LaSalle, you are going 5
to say being risk-informed and all that sort of thing, 6
that it is making accidents a lot worse or something 7
like that is not significant.
8 And so we are going to allow them to 9
continue to operate the way they already are.
So it 10 is kind of a broader question than whether Vermont 11 Yankee is using that equipment inappropriately during 12 the summer.
13 It is a question of, well, how does the 14 NRC allow the presentation of all these ways of 15 finding risk and stuff, and is there a connection with 16
-- well, if it is a benefit, do you allow them to 17 express one way, and if it is a cost to you, do you 18 allow them to express it another way, and it is really 19 going to the public.
20 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Well, I understand 21 that issue, and if I
didn't make it clear at the 22 beginning, I
apologize.
But the purpose of this 23 conference is not for us to answer the questions, but 24 just to get additional information.
25
17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 It is kind of like a one-way street, and 1
then when we deliberate, we will answer the type of 2
information that you are bringing up either through a 3
Director's decision or a letter.
4 MR. MULLIGAN:
Well, just to be clear, the 5
last time I
went with
- LaSalle, and a
couple of 6
citizens completely misconstrued my questions, and 7
turned it around, and so that is the concern that I 8
have.
9 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Okay.
Well, that's 10 within the letter that we sent you on November 29th.
11 MR. MULLIGAN:
Yes, and my position was 12 belittled and stuff, and the next couple of days when 13 I get that sent out to you and stuff like that, it 14 will be explained in the letter and stuff like that.
15 So I just want you to know that already I 16 have gotten -- well, if the response will follow along 17 with the rules and regulations, but there was 18 (inaudible) in the way that some of that stuff was 19 explained to me, and the distortions in it.
20 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
- Well, I
certainly 21 apologize to that.
We certainly didn't mean to insult 22 you, and we will take another look at this letter, and 23 we will consider the comments that you are going to 24
18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 send us on this letter.
And perhaps we can explain it 1
more clearly.
2 MR. MULLIGAN:
Okay.
3 MR.
SUBBARATNAM:
- And, of
- course, Mr.
4 Mulligan, you realize that the conversation that we 5
are having right now will also be transcribed and the 6
hard copy of the draft will be available in a couple 7
of days in time, and that will add quite a bit more 8
lines of what you have missed in the previous 9
(inaudible).
10 MR. MULLIGAN:
Now, talking to -- I forget 11 what his name is.
Who is that guy that I was talking 12 to?
13 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Bill Macon?
14 MR. MULLIGAN:
Mr. Macon, yes.
You know, 15 he essentially -- well, I got an e-mail, and he says, 16 well, the matter is closed, and stuff like that, and 17 then -- and so the way that he kind of hinted that he 18 didn't want to hear any more from me.
19 And I will admit that he wanted that he --
20 that he would have had we had been able to set up some 21 time to talk about it.
But his e-mail was -- you 22 know, basically the issue was closed.
23
19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. SUBBARATNAM: But he probably meant it 1
was closed with respect to LaSalle, but you have the 2
right to reopen it at any time if you like.
3 MR. MULLIGAN:
Again, he wasn't -- again, 4
you know, I kind of asked for a lot of help and stuff 5
like that, and what I got from or with the last part 6
of this again was kind of a brush off, saying that it 7
is over with.
It is an over with type of thing.
8 I didn't really get an explanation of what 9
I can do next or anything like that, and if I agree 10 with what was said, or stuff like that.
So again 11 there was a tone there of not trying to understand 12 what I was getting at.
13 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
The notice is not open 14 and if you have more information, we have to receive 15 it and we will look at it, and you will write 16 everything that you need in your supplement that you 17 are going to submit to us, and we will also make a 18 decision based on the same material that we have 19 already got among the (inaudible).
20 MR. MULLIGAN:
So it is not going to be 21 accepted as a Vermont Yankee --
22 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
No.
23 MR. MULLIGAN:
Or it is not going to go to 24 the petition board I should say?
25
20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
It will go to the 1
petition board and the board will meet after this 2
telephone call, and we will call you back with the 3
decision and give you another opportunity to comment 4
on the course of action that the NRC decides to take.
5 If you would like for us to wait until you 6
send us a letter on LaSalle, perhaps it would be more 7
advantageous if we could look at that with this one, 8
because it seems to be the same issue.
9 MR. MULLIGAN:
Well, just -- I mean, I 10 don't know if you would necessarily -- I mean, if you 11 could wait or not, but again it is a question over 12 there you look at the recent inspection part of 13 Limerick, and what I am going to base the additional 14 to this LaSalle 2.206 on is essentially saying because 15 of the Limerick issue, basically the NRC said we have 16 a
whole bunch of rules and regulations, and 17 maintenance rules, and all that sort of stuff, and 18 these are the things that will prevent a relief or 19 torus cooling type of accident.
20 And I
am saying that is the Limerick 21 inspection reports.
22 MR.
SUBBARATNAM:
Mr.
- Mulligan, which 23 Limerick report are you talking about to the Board?
24 Are you talking about --
25
21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
It says here 111.
1 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
111?
2 MR. MULLIGAN:
Yes.
3 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Rule 111.
Okay.
4 MR. MULLIGAN:
Do you understand what I am 5
saying?
That you had a whole bunch of rules and 6
regulations and the ability of intervene and you 7
didn't.
Everybody allowed the valve to fail.
8 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Okay.
9 MR. MULLIGAN:
And if you sit there and 10 say -- if you use that justification for LaSalle in 11
- this, and you
- say, well, maybe the rules and 12 regulations, you might have a whole bunch of them, and 13 if you use the right one it would prevent it.
14 But as it was used in my opinion, you will 15 not prevent a serious accident in the future, and that 16 is my concern.
17 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Okay.
Well, we will 18 look at this inspection report before the Petition 19 Review Board meets, and take your comments that you 20 just make into consideration.
21 But having not read the details behind 22 that inspection
- report, we will just take your 23 comments and consider them after we have looked at 24 that inspection report.
25
22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Mr. Mulligan, when do 1
you think you are going to send us the supplemental 2
information?
Is it going to be sent to us this week 3
or early next week, or is it going to be probably 4
another week before we get this information from you?
5 MR. MULLIGAN: How about tomorrow morning?
6 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
That would be fine.
Do 7
you plan on sending another e-mail to Bob Pulsifer?
8 MR. MULLIGAN:
Excuse me?
9 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Would you send it by 10 e-mail directly?
11 MR. MULLIGAN:
Yes.
12 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Okay.
That would be 13 good.
14 MR. MULLIGAN:
Yes.
15 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Okay.
16 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Then perhaps we can 17 meet either tomorrow or early next week.
18 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Yes.
19 MR. MULLIGAN:
Can I make one more comment 20 about Vermont Yankee?
21 CHAIRPERSON BLACK:
Sure.
22 MR. MULLIGAN:
Well, actually about the 23 NRC.
On the Vermont Yankee inspection report -- I am 24
23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 trying to figure out which inspection report I am 1
talking about so that you guys will have an idea.
2 MR. BERKOW:
Is it 01-08?
3 MR. MULLIGAN:
Yes, that's it.
Exactly.
4 You know, it seems that the NRC didn't make an attempt 5
to explain why there was an operator error, and why 6
they were using torus cooling.
7 It basically said the reason that it 8
failed -- and they really didn't go into the -- you 9
- know, didn't give any kind of background, and of 10 course as everybody
- knows, and as the inspection 11 knows, and the Vermont Yankee knows, but the public 12 rally has no idea, and they have no -- they don't have 13 any background on why are they using that, why are 14 they using torus cooling.
15 Is it because they were testing HPCI or 16 RCIC or was it some other type of problem with the 17 river or the environmental temperatures in the 18 building, and stuff like that.
19 So again the NRC doesn't really give any 20 clues to the public of why they are using that 21 equipment, and so nobody can really challenge the NRC 22 or Vermont Yankee if they don't have any kind of 23 specialized training to figure out what is going on 24 and stuff like that.
25
24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 So I wanted to make that issue, and I 1
wanted to say that.
I don't think the inspector gave 2
enough background and information on what they were 3
using for our score.
4 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
Okay.
Mr. Mulligan, we 5
will wait for your e-mail from you tomorrow morning, 6
and then we will probably regroup, and the Panel will 7
reconvene and review the points.
8 MR. MULLIGAN:
Okay.
Thank you.
9 MR. SUBBARATNAM: Thank you for your time, 10 Mr. Mulligan.
11 MR. MULLIGAN:
Thank you, sir.
12 MR. SUBBARATNAM:
All right.
13 (Whereupon, the conference call was 14 concluded.)
15 16