ML23240A528

2023 RIC Commissioner Plenary - Annie Caputo - Remarks

ML23240A528
Person / Time
Issue date:	03/15/2023
From:	NRC/OCM
To:
Shared Package
ML23240A518	List: ML23240A525 ML23240A526 ML23240A527 ML23240A528 ML23240A529 ML23240A530 ML23240A531 ML23240A532
References
Download: ML23240A528 (1)

Text

1

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

+ + + + +

35TH REGULATORY INFORMATION CONFERENCE (RIC)

+ + + + +

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO PLENARY

+ + + + +

WEDNESDAY,

MARCH 15, 2023

+ + + + +

The Plenary Session convened at the

Bethesda North Marriott Hotel and Conference Center,

located at 5701 Marinelli Road, North Bethesda,

Maryland and via Video Teleconference, at 8:30 a.m.

EDT, The Honorable Annie Caputo, Commissioner, NRC,

presiding.

PRESENT:

ANNIE CAPUTO, Commissioner, NRC

RAY FURSTENAU, Director, Office Nuclear Regulatory

Research, NRC

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 2

P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

8:30 a.m.

MR. FURSTENAU: Welcome back to the

second day of our 2023 RIC. I hope everybody had a

great day yesterday and a nice evening.

This morning we have plenary sessions

with remarks by Commissioner Annie Caputo and

Commissioner Bradley Crowell and our Executive

Director, Dan Dorman. Then after that, we'll

complete the morning with the fireside chat from our

NRC Chair, Christopher Hanson, and Director General

of the Nuclear Energy Agency, Bill Magwood.

I want to mention for those folks here

in person for the Q&As, please use the QR code.

It's real easy to use and it gets you right to the

question and answer session and those online, when

you sign into the session, there'll be a tab for

Qs&As.

With that, it's my honor and pleasure to

introduce our first plenary speaker, the Honorable

Annie Caputo. She was sworn in as a Commissioner of

the US NRC in August of 2022 and is currently

serving the remainder of her five-year term ending

in June of 2026. As many of you know, Commissioner

Caputo previously served at the NRC from 2018 to

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 3

2021. Most recently, she worked as a consultant for

the Idaho National Laboratory related to

international collaboration on advanced nuclear

reactors. Prior to her work at INL, she served as a

professional staff member on the US Senate Arms

Services Committee assisting with issues related to

the National Nuclear Security Administration's

infrastructure. She also served as the senior

policy advisor for Chairman John Barrasso on the

Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

Commissioner Caputo held the same

position for then Chairman James Inhofe from 2007 to

2012 and from 2005 to 2006 and 2012 to 2015,

Commissioner Caputo worked for the House Committee

on energy and commerce, handling nuclear issues.

Prior to her positions on Capitol Hill, she worked

for Exelon Corporation. She's a graduate from the

University of Wisconsin - Madison and she holds a

Bachelor's degree in Nuclear Engineering.

With that, let's all welcome

Commissioner Caputo and I didn't take your notes.

(Laughter.)

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: Thank you, Ray,

for that introduction. Go Badgers. Let's just you

know get started. Thank you and good morning to

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 4

everyone here. It's wonderful to be live and in

person. Welcome to day two of the RIC.

I want to take a moment to recognize and

thank all of the countless NRC staff who have made

this event possible and are working very hard to

make it a success. Thank you for being here and for

all that you do.

I also want to welcome so many people.

This event is so well attended with international

colleagues, academia, federal and local governments,

non-governmental organizations, members of the

public and everyone both online and in person.

Thank you for joining us.

I also want to make a specific welcome

to NEA Director Bill Magwood for joining us and for

former Chairman Dick Mes-erve and Stephen Burns,

former Commissioners Apostolakis and Ostendorff.

You've all been mentors to me for a very long time

and I appreciate all of the wisdom you've shared

over the years.

Like my fellow commissioners, I want to

give one more thank you. I am blessed with a staff

of highly talented, high performers, who I would

just be lost without them. A special thanks to

Nicole, Heather, Eric, Marilyn, Bob and Julie, you

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 5

rock!

The theme of this year's RIC is

Navigating the Nuclear Future and who better to talk

about the future than Daniel Yergin, the famous

author and energy expert. In his recent book, The

New Map: Energy, Climate, and the Clash of Nations,

Yergin lays out the case for how climate change

policy is changing our future through the reshaping

of geopolitics, global economics and global energy

supply. He describes how different kinds of power

are in play. "One is the power of nations that is

shaped by economics, military capabilities and

geography; by grand strategy and calculated

ambition, by suspicion and fear; and by the

contingent and unexpected." This statement is

particularly prescient given that the book was

published shortly before Russia's malicious invasion

of Ukraine. I want to associate myself with

remarks made by Director General Grossi and Chairman

Hanson on this situation yesterday. To our

Ukrainian colleagues, you have my heartfelt

admiration for your continued dedication given the

challenge of ensuring nuclear safety in a war zone.

Dan Yergin also refers to other kinds of

power, more specifically, "the power that comes from

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 6

oil and gas and coal, from wind and solar and from

splitting atoms, and the power that comes from

policies that seek to re-order the world's energy

system and move toward net zero carbon in the name

of climate." Here in the US, we are seeing the

challenges of this net zero transition.

The PJM Interconnection, one of the

nation's largest grid operators, is growing

concerned about resource adequacy. PJM estimates

the retirement of 40,000 megawatts of electricity

generation, 21 percent of its total generation by

2030. Over half of the projected retirements are

considered policy driven. In contrast, PJM

estimates 15 to 30,000 of renewables and battery

storage may be added to the grid by 2030. All of

this comes at a time when policies are driving the

increase electrification of buildings,

transportation and industry. Calvin Butler, the new

CEO of Exelon, recently indicated that the

electrification of buildings in Baltimore would

double the electrical load. Consider for a moment

the impact of all of these policy dynamics across

the country.

Economic growth and growth in

electricity demand have historically been

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 7

correlated. This correlation will become more

intense with increased electrification. This means

that economic wellbeing and efforts to eliminate

energy poverty around the world will be ever more

reliant on adequate supplies of clean, affordable

and reliable electricity. Hence, there is a growing

expectation that any success in mitigating climate

change and meeting future energy needs here and

around the world must include robust deployment of

safe and clean nuclear energy. While the completion

of Vogtle Units 3 and 4 will be a very significant

accomplishment, those units represent one small step

toward a net zero objective.

Here in the US, we at the NRC are

gatekeepers to that future. The primacy of our

mission to protect publish health and safety and

security and the environment is indisputable, but if

the global vision of success includes a robust

nuclear deployment, what does success look like for

us as a regulator? The posture with which we

approach our mission will have a distinct impact on

how nuclear energy will make a growing contribution

to our energy needs and that bears repeating. The

posture with which we approach our mission will have

a distinct impact on whether nuclear energy will

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 8

make a growing contribution.

Years ago, we at the NRC embarked on a

transformation effort. The executive director set

our objective to be a modern, risk-informed

regulator. Similarly, the Office of Nuclear Reactor

Regulation embraced the motto, we make the safe use

of nuclear technology possible. What this

transformation effort and NRR's motto rightly

suggest is that as a regulator, our posture should

be finding solutions rather than raising obstacles.

For us to become successful as an

agency, I believe we need to become that moderate

risk-informed regulator who makes the safe use of

nuclear energy possible. I'm going to share with

you today what I think our success would look like

and there's no better time than the present to make

it happen. There's also no better time than the

present to innovate.

Once upon a time, space was the sole

domain of governments, now NASA astronauts ride to

the International Space Station on commercial

vehicles. Advances in artificial intelligence now

raise the question did I write this speech or did

ChatGPT? Innovation in nuclear technology is well

underway in both fission and fusion and we at the

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 9

NRC consistently say we will be ready to review

applications we receive and we are, using our

established regulations, procedures, practices and

precedents. But by its very nature, innovation must

depart from precedent so the question is can we

innovate how we regulate? Congress has directed us

to develop a technology neutral, risk-informed,

performance based framework for advanced reactors.

Can we innovate where and when it counts?

This nuclear regulatory framework for

advanced reactors, Part 53, is now before the

Commission. Significant work remains to develop the

framework Congress envisioned. A framework that is

truly risk-informed reflecting the inherent safety

found in advanced designs and one that is efficient,

enabling timely reviews to allow safe nuclear energy

deployment on a scale warranted by our national and

global energy needs.

I am rolling up my sleeves to work with

my colleagues and shape a simpler, risk-informed,

innovative rule that will be the foundation for

predictable and timely safety reviews merited by

these advanced designs. This will require

considerable work on the part of the Commission, our

staff, but it is important that we focus our

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 10

collective efforts to meet Congress' intent with a

sense of urgency. The challenge is how efficiently

can we enable these advanced technologies while

preserving safety.

There is also no better time than the

present for data driven, risk-informed decision

making. Our clarity principle of regulations states

that regulations should be coherent, logical and

practical and that agency position should be readily

understood and applied. To me, data driven decision

making is foundational to these principles.

Processes and outcomes should be objective, reliable

and reproducible. They should also be transparent.

External stakeholders should be able to review our

work and understand how we reached our conclusion.

What do we mean by risk-informed?

Fundamentally, it means regulatory activities should

be consistent with a degree of risk reduction they

achieve, once again, as stated in our principles of

good regulation. Many of today's operating reactors

were licensed in the '60s and '70s, at a time when

technology was young and operating experience was

limited. Toleration of risk and uncertainty was

unavoidable in the early development of nuclear

energy. Now, just in the US, we have nearly 4,000

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 11

years, reactor years of operating experience. A

couple of years ago the Nuclear Energy Institute

produced a report detailing how the industry had

dramatically improved its safety over the past 20

years according to each and every NRC and in-post

safety performance indicator. With that experience

and safety improvement comes a highly refined

understanding of the technology and a wealth of risk

information. Have we put this wealth of information

and experience to good use to refine our

understanding of what is necessary for adequate

protection or as a regulator, do we instead seek

further precision? The desire for further precision

can lend itself to an insatiable appetite for

information and an ever shrinking tolerance of risk

and uncertainty.

With the combination of state of the art

probabilistic risk assessment and the computer

modeling and simulation tools available today, we

can debate the likelihood of an event happening once

in 10 billion years, billion with a B. How do we

balance the constant desire to know more with the

threshold of knowing enough? Is our ability to

model risk that small driving the pursuit of

absolute safety rather than adequate safety? Is it

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 12

hindering our ability to accept some level of risk

and reach decisions? In the case of digital

instrumentation and control, the answer is clearly

yes. Thirty years ago, nuclear submarines went to

sea and commercial aircraft took off with digital

instrumentation and control. Yet, we still wrestle

with the issue.

We have processes in place that can

guide us to the extent that we follow them. Our

backfit rule is decision-making process that begins

with risk information before imposing a backfit and

requiring revisions, revising our requirements for

existing licensees, the agency must first determine

through a systematic analysis whether that change

will be a substantial increase in public safety and

that the change is cost justified. In this way,

risk information forms the basis for determining

whether the safety or security increase is, in fact,

beneficial.

Similarly, the regulatory analysis that

underpins our rule making proposals must also use

risk information to determine that each element of

the proposal is safety beneficial on its own.

Regulatory analysis shouldn't be an afterthought,

it should be a tool that helps us discern between

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 13

proposals that merely sound good and those that are,

in fact, safety beneficial and cost effective. Our

ability to use effective risk information in these

processes rests on our commitment to data driven

decision making. We need to gather and utilize the

right data to make risk-informed decisions, but it's

not enough to simply gather the data, we need to use

it objectively. As our principles state: final

decisions must be based on objective, unbiased

assessments of all information.

If we become successful in making data

driven, risk-informed decisions, what would that

look like? If our regulatory activities were truly

consistent with the risk reduction they achieve,

what outcomes would we expect to see? For operating

reactors, I expect we would see a focus on

inspections and licensing reviews that are focused

on safety significance. That we would be using

risk-informed decision tools, like the risk-informed

process for evaluation and the Very Low Safety

Significance Resolution process to resolve things

that aren't safety significant. That we would

constantly, consistently adhere to the backfit rule.

We would produce complete, high quality regulatory

analyses. That we would be enabling widespread

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 14

implementation of digital instrumentation & control

and that we would be executing predictable,

efficient 50.69 reviews to risk inform the

categorization and treatment of structures, systems,

and components.

With regard to advanced reactors, we

mustnt let the pursuit of absolute safety paralyze

our ability to reach decisions. Rather, we should

continue to pursue our statutory mandate of adequate

protection. It is difficult to justify regulating

safety to a level below that of an asteroid

destroying global civilization, a risk of 1 in 2.3

million years. We must innovate how we regulate

safety and find ways to risk inform our approaches,

recognize inherent safety features and exhibit

results driven leadership.

There is also no better time than the

present to improve our financial stewardship. Our

principles of good regulation state that the

American taxpayer, the rate paying consumer, and

licensees are all entitled to the best possible

management and administration of our regulatory

activities. My longstanding view is that the

agency needs to improve its financial management and

stewardship of its resources.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 15

The budget is the largest policy

instrument for the agency. It sets forth priorities

and it allocates resources. It should align with

our strategic plan. It should be performance based

and it should accurately depict our mission needs.

I'm not going to tell you anything that isn't

publicly available, but at the end of fiscal year

'22, the agency had a carryover of 92 million

dollars. This means the agency collected roughly 58

million dollars from licensees and 34 million

dollars from taxpayers that it did not need to

fulfill its mission last year. This, and a 906

million dollar budget, resulted in an excess of 10

percent due to inaccurate budget projections, yet

instead of adjusting the budget request down to

account for it, the 2024 budget request was

increased up to over a billion dollars.

The difference between what the agency

actually needed in '22 and the 2024 budget request

is 192 million dollars. This is difficult to square

with a drop in our workload. All the inspections

and licensing reviews are billed by the hour to our

licensees and applicants. This work is down 46

percent from 2016. In 2023, this work will require

roughly 419 FTE out of our 2,777 employees. That

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 16

accounts for roughly 15 percent of our personnel and

only 21 percent of our budget. You can nearly

double this year's workload and still fit within

that 2024 budget request.

The agency will spend 46 percent more on

corporate support activities than on inspection and

licensing work. Compared to the 419 FTE doing

licensing and inspection, 579 will be doing

corporate support functions. We need to get back to

basics with a focus on actual expenditures to inform

budget development with a measure of detail

commensurate enough to make truly informed

decisions, but in my time on the Commission, we have

yet to effect these changes. We need to take a hard

look at necessary activities and services that

support the core mission of the agency and use data

driven decision making to reach effective outcomes.

So far, the agency's transformation efforts have

seemed to achieve the opposite of what was expected.

We are spending more to do less work.

In short, our workload has shrunk. We

are collecting significantly more revenue than we

need and our budget is growing. This is not what I

consider good stewardship. There is no better time

than the present to get our fiscal house in order.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 17

There's one last subject I'd like to

address today and that is the challenges facing

women in the workplace. There is no better time

than the present to empower women. As you're all

aware, March is Women's History Month. This year,

for me personally, it's different. I'd like to

share with you some personal experiences as a woman

in the nuclear field to illustrate why that is.

These experiences have caused me to

reflect on inclusion in the workplace, particularly

because some of my observations may feel strikingly

similar to other folks in the nuclear field. Some

of what I will say today I have shared with NRC

staff in a couple of venues. I particularly want to

recognize Region Two since they shared my first step

on this journey.

When I graduated and started working in

the nuclear field, I often felt like I was treated

as a young girl fresh out of college who doesn't

know anything. I shrugged it off because they had a

point. I was fresh out of school and I had a lot to

learn, but I figured it wouldn't always be the case

as I gained experience and knowledge. So, I plowed

forward with my career goals, choosing to ignore

that treatment and not let it stand in my way.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 18

Besides, the work environment was getting better for

women all the time, so this dynamic would wane over

time, right? Shortly after I was confirmed for my

second term, I found myself getting, for lack of a

better term, nukesplained. Someone with

significantly less technical and policy experience

talked to me as if I was clueless about an issue I

had monitored and studied for years. It was

frustrating and it was demeaning, but I let it go

and redirected the conversation to a different

topic.

Later that night, I reflected on the

experience. I was frustrated and I thought if this

is still happening to me at this stage in my career,

how many other women are also struggling. Not long

after this experience, I ran into Rumina Velshi, who

is an absolute inspiration, particularly on these

issues, but on so many others in our field. I

couldn't wait to share my story. She listened,

commiserated and then asked, so what did you do

about it? I was struck, wow, what a wakeup call.

What had I done about it? Nothing. The same

approach I had taken for my entire career. I

ignored it and plowed forward. I tolerated it.

What I now recognize is it's incumbent

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 19

upon me at this point in my career to wrestle with

these issues and do what I can to impart change for

the better. Women have faced these issues as long

as they have been in the workplace and currently

things are a lot better than they were years ago and

certainly better than what our mothers faced, but

there's a saying, it's not enough to climb up the

mountain, you should reach behind and give someone

else a hand up.

Director General Grossi and Secretary

Granholm have both focused on the need to recruit

and retain women in nuclear and that's important. I

think the recent reports from the Nuclear Energy

Agency, Gender Balance in the Nuclear Sector, is an

important effort to gather data on the challenges

women face.

I think Director General Magwood has

really been a role model in trying to bring

attention to this issue and encourage women to

pursue careers in nuclear, but I think he goes

beyond that. This is where I'm going to insert a

strong caveat, I think my struggles have been a

fraction of what some women have faced, so what I'm

about to say is in no way intended to trivialize the

women out there who faced much tougher situations

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 20

than I have, but these dynamics twice in my career

have influenced my decision to actually leave a

position. Once as my sole reason and the other as a

strong contributing factor. The fact that women

struggle in the work environment and they can choose

to leave as a result of that should be a reason for

all of us to focus on making our workplace more

inclusive. Among the strongest drivers of job

satisfaction were for people to feel appreciated and

I believe the extent to which people feel

appreciated is strongly influenced by how inclusive

we are.

I'm going to share two stories that

illustrate this. A recent one where I played a role

and one that happened to me many, many years ago. A

few months ago, I was in a meeting with about 15

people, three of them women. We had a PowerPoint

presentation over lunch and we were engaged in a

discussion. A woman across the table from me

started to speak up. She was interrupted. I

noticed it. I looked at her, she looked at me

expressionless. She waited a few moments for

another opportunity to jump into the conversation.

She tried to jump in and was cut off again. She

gave me a little knowing smile and I gave her a

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 21

little knowing smile back.

I thought to myself okay, fine, I'll

barge into this conversation. I'm going to

interject and give her an opening. She deserves to

be heard and I want to hear what she has to say.

So, I tried to speak up and I was cut off. I gave

her a surprised look. She gave me a surprised look.

So, I waited a minute and I jumped in a little more

forcefully and I asked for her input. She had a

wonderful, insightful contribution to the

discussion. What stuck with me though was the level

of effort it took to elicit that contribution.

Women face these situations every day

and every situation is fraught with a judgment call.

Should I speak up? If a woman asserts herself, she

risks being labeled as bossy or aggressive or does

she choose to play it safe, withdraw and sit

quietly. It's so easy to focus on the substance of

the meeting and get lost in our own thoughts and

miss a moment like that one. In many cases it isn't

intentional and others in the room would be

mortified if they realized what that outcome was.

These moments can be subtle and fleeting, but when

we miss them, there is an equally subtle message

that her voice isn't worth hearing. This is a very

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 22

subtle and crucial aspect of inclusion. How hard is

it for anyone, not just women, to contribute and be

heard?

Now I'm going to dive way back in my

past to a time when I was a volunteer firefighter

and emergency medical technician. Obviously, this

is a work environment where physical strength

matters and as a young woman, I was fairly self-

conscious about my physical strength and I wasn't

alone. One of the other women on the department and

I committed that we were going to lift weights

together at the station and build our strength.

One evening when we were working out,

one of the fellow firefighters came over to us with

an air of contempt. It was palpable instantly. He

stated in no uncertain terms he would never go into

a burning building with either one of us because if

something went wrong, neither of us would be able to

carry him out. In his opinion, we shouldn't even be

on the department. It was like a shot to solar

plexus. I couldn't breathe. I felt devastated.

Not 10 seconds later, our lieutenant in

charge of fire training, Scott, came around the

corner having heard everything. He looked us each

in the eye and told us to forget everything we had

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 23

just heard. He told us that he would go into a

burning building with either one of us because he

trusted our judgment and our dedication. He knew

that most importantly, we would maintain situational

awareness and keep our partners and ourselves out of

dangerous situation and if the worst should happen

and our partner went down, he knew that no matter

what we would stop at nothing to get them out. It

wouldn't be a glamorous fireman's carry like in the

movies, but dragging a person out accomplishes the

same objective of getting them to safety and that is

what matters.

He was glad to see us in the weight room

and encouraged us to stick with it. He stressed

that everyone in the department has important

contributions to make. The strongest men aren't

necessarily the best in the back of an ambulance

with an injured child and a terrified parent. What

made us an important part of the team is that we

were all intent on finding ways to serve and help

those who needed us. That mindset together with our

judgment and dedication was why he wouldn't hesitate

to go inside a fire with either one of us.

I felt so valued. I felt empowered. I

was inspired and most of all, I was motivated.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 24

There was no challenge too big for me to tackle. I

was ready to face my fear and follow him into a

burning building because I knew that we were a team

and together we were unstoppable.

Stephen Covey has written about a

concept he calls the shadow of the leader. It means

that as a leader whether you realize it or not,

you're casting a shadow so be mindful of the

influence you exert, even when you are unaware.

This conversation took only a few minutes of Scott's

time and it took place over 30 years ago. He has

probably long since forgotten that conversation, but

you can tell the impact it had on me and how it

inspires me to this day.

Think of all the contrasts between these

two examples. One where women hesitate to speak up

in meetings and one where a woman would run into a

burning building. The difference is leadership.

Imagine for a moment if everyone felt as motivated

as I felt under Scott's leadership. Think of the

untapped potential that could be unleashed in a work

environment where women felt comfortable speaking up

and contributing.

True leadership inspires us to grow

beyond who we are and become something greater.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 25

Scott inspired me to grow beyond who I was and be

braver than I thought I could be. While I shared my

perspective as a woman, I have no intention to

ignore or dismiss the experiences of minorities or

gender diverse individuals, particularly because I

think some of these observations are probably

strikingly similar for them also.

This is an issue where we can all lean

in. Our workplace reflects how we as individuals

interact and treat each other. Our careers are the

sum of our experiences and interactions of those we

work with. Our coworkers help shape our work

environment and we shape theirs. So, the question

is, how do you want to shape it?

Megan Rapinoe, the professional soccer

player said, real change lies within all of us. It

is in the choices we make every day. I thought the

passage of time and my leaving footprints would make

the path easier for those who follow, but it isn't

enough, so I will find ways to step up my game, find

my voice and give a hand to others to help them up

the mountain. I recently had the pleasure of

inviting Mary Casto, a brilliant environmental

scientist new to the NRC team, to spend a day with

me in the office and my intent is for her to be the

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 26

first in what I hope is a long line of proteges.

Encouraging women's engagement and helping them find

their voice is a choice that we can all make every

day and it's crucial to the future of the NRC and to

the nuclear industry at large. This is where

inclusion goes beyond principle and into practice

and there's no better time than the present. Thank

you.

MR. FURSTENAU: Thank you, Commissioner

Caputo. I've got to start with this. I started, as

I was monitoring questions, I've got to admit it, I

got a little bit overwhelmed because there were so

many great comments about what you were talking

about towards the end of your talk. I just wanted

to share some of those comments with you and the

audience before we get into the Q&A.

First, thank you for your bravery to

speak frankly about women's issues in the nuclear

field. Another comment, racial minorities have

expressed similar frustration with very similar

challenges. Thank you for addressing the common

struggles that we, as women engineers, face on a

daily basis and just, again, another comment, a

hearty thank you for sharing your experiences on

that.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 27

Okay, now we'll get to the --

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: Thank you to

everyone for the thank yous.

MR. FURSTENAU: A question related to

the topic, I think is coming from industry, what

actions or incentives do you feel we could implement

to entice the under-represented at mid career or, I

think, any level of career to come to the NRC?

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: Oh, to incentivize

them to join the NRC rather than industry?

MR. FURSTENAU: Yes. I threw that in,

that's my part of question.

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: Okay, no that's

fine. That's fine. You know I really think that's

a better question for our NRAN cohort because they

made that decision. They're all quite talented and

bright and capable and they joined us instead of the

industry. I think a lot of times we are very self-

conscious about the fact that we can't necessarily

offer competitive salaries with industry, but what

we do offer is public service and a mission that

everyone can embrace with dedication and commitment.

I think that appeals to a lot of people. I think it

also appeals to the right kind of people.

For employees that are drawn to that

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 28

mission, it's because they are dedicated and they

have a public service mindset and I think that that

level of commitment is exactly what we're looking

for. So, I think there's a certain amount of

natural affinity there.

MR. FURSTENAU: Okay, thank you.

Another one related to work force. What role do you

think the NRC should play in nuclear work force

development?

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: I think we need to

continue doing a lot of what we're doing. One of

the challenges that we face as an agency is

attrition. Over half of our work force is over 50.

Our attrition rates have increased from four to

seven percent over the last several years, so if we

continue to see attrition at that level, you can

think about swapping out one-third of the agency

over the next five years. That's an incredible

hiring challenge, so recruitment is a tall order.

I think we have a very active HR

department that is working on being very strategic

in recruitment and places that they target to find

the high quality people we need for our mission and

to find a diverse set of people that are wanting to

engage in the mission. So, that is a part of it,

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 29

but I also think retention is a big issue, not just

to recruit these people early in their careers, but

to show them an exciting career path where they can

grow and develop and continue to contribute to the

mission for a number of years and find the position

challenging and exciting. But, we also have a

contingent of middle management, who because we have

been blessed with such a large section of

experienced employees, perhaps have not had the

upper mobility as much as they might have liked. So

I think it's incumbent upon us to pay particular

attention to making sure that we are giving these

people the challenges and the room for growth that

they need to develop because in short order, we're

going to need each and every one of them to fill the

shoes left behind as our deep experienced bench

heads into a well-earned retirement.

MR. FURSTENAU: All right, thanks. I

think we have time for one more question here. How

do your statements on a decedent in workload square

with other statements from our external stakeholders

that the NRC will need to address new SMRs, new LWR

proposals, increase in international demands,

increase in advanced reactors and an increase in

regulations that the staff will need to address?

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 30

COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: I think that's

probably a natural, I will call it, knee jerk

response because there's an expectation that there

will be a lot of applications and a lot of advanced

reactors coming. The natural response to that is to

make sure that we have the staff we need. I think

having enough staff with the right qualifications is

exactly what we need. We need to be focused on

that.

The challenge that I see is the fact

that we have significant resources to do that. When

you look at the scope of the workload, as these

applications come in the 419 that I referenced, this

includes all of our resident inspectors in all of

our plants full time. Everyone that's reviewing

license amendments. Everyone that's reviewing

advanced reactor applications, topical reports, pre-

application engagement right now. So, when I say we

could double our workload and still fit within the

'24 budget, that encompasses an enormous amount of

work that we could handle if we staff according to

our technical staff needs.

I think the concern that I have is the

fact that that portion of work is 21 percent of our

agency at this point. It's our primary mission, but

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 31

it represents a small minority of the work that we

do.

I think it's that other work that we

should really scrutinize because I think, if

anything, I think it's quite possible that our

employees' time is getting cluttered with things

that are not necessarily crucial for the mission,

whether it's working groups, meetings, etc. I think

there's room to find ways to have our employees use

their time more wisely and smarter and expect less

clutter in their schedule to allow them the time to

focus on what's truly important. That, I think, is

an area that is ripe for us to focus on.

MR. FURSTENAU: Okay, thank you very

much, Commissioner Caputo. Appreciate your remarks

and the Q&A session. With that, I'll close this

session. There's just a couple of minutes until the

next plenary, so a very short, a very, very short

stretch break. Let's thank Commissioner Caputo

again.

(Whereupon, the above-entitled matter

went off the record at 9:12 a.m.)

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309